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Server Time: 11/20/2009 7:35:12 PM PACIFIC |
 Poker Playing as a Career, CarBear59, 8. May 2003 03:30 | ||
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| My 18 year old son, who has not yet graduated from high school, wants to be a professional poker player as his career. He only plays online poker. If anyone knows the facts or sites that can provide facts to either prove or disapprove this thought, please lmk. Thanks. | ||
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| Re: Poker Playing as a Career, 4 POKER, 8. May 2003 05:25 | ||
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| Hi, I can't help but wonder why your son has such a fascination with poker at such an young age. How long has he been playing on-line, being only 18 and all? Does he have friends that play poker for a living or has he just been thinking about this on his own? He must have had good results that would lead him to think that this could someday be a good career for him. There are several professional players out there that started when they were very young (and some of them have become quite successful). But for the most part, it is not that simple. There are many people that think that playing poker for a living would be "Really Cool", and from an outsider's perspective, I can see how they might come to that conclusion, (Especially with all those exciting poker movies out there). Don't get me wrong, poker can be alot of fun but... It is not Easy by any means. First, you have to have a certain mindset to even consider the possibility. (There are many Ups and Downs in Poker, and even though there is a tremendous amount of skill(Up-side), There is also a great deal of luck(Down-side). Does he think he would be able to deal with that factor? And has he given it enough thought? I'm going to assume that your son has put in many hours on-line and understands how to play the game "Correctly", so he has the ability to make money from it. Does your son show a good enough profit, and if so, how long is he basing that on, (3 months, 6 months, one year)? He has to calculate how much he has actually earned per hour based on the limit in which he is playing at so he can get an idea as to what his "Earn" would be.(That is very important). Let's say that he makes a good earn from playing poker right now. Is he going to be willing to put in the hours and the dedication that is needed to become a successful poker player?(or at least earn enough money that would cover all of his living expenses(ie), A new car, insurance, rent, phone bill, and extra spending money?... You know, A Regular Job, because that is what it'll be for him..."A Job"). Poker, unlike all the other jobs, is one where you can put in 40+ hours a week and not come home with a paycheck. (just something to think about)... Do you think he'll be able to handle the "Swings" in poker, Earn $600 one week, lose $ 1000 the following week?(just something to think about)... It's not as glorious as it may seem, but if he has dedication and determination and is Skilled enough, than it can work for him, and it can be quite fun and very exciting. (as long as he keeps his feet on the ground). I play for a living myself but I was much older then that when I started. The best thing that I love about my profession, is that it gives me total freedom and I am my own boss. But it requires so much of your time when you're first starting out and you really have to have a lot of patience and a tremendous amount of discipline. One of the most important factors of being successful with this field as that you have great abilities in managing your money correctly. Ask your son this question. "Do you think you would enjoy playing poker if you HAD to RELY on it as your only source of income, and are you willing to commit to putting in so many work hours per week"? (Maybe he can start out by just supplimenting his income for awhile before making too quick a decision) I wish him(and you) the best of luck and I hope that he weighs out his decision carefully. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Poker Playing as a Career, shorn, 8. May 2003 05:42 | ||
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| Cardster- 4 POKER has pretty much covered all the things to think about. The one point that I would emphasize is (and I don't play for living right now) that it seems to me to be a professional player requires an immense amount of discipline and dedication (not to mention talent). I don't know you or your son so i am certainly not passing judgment here. However, I know for a fact that there is NO WAY that I would have ever been able to handle such an undertaking at 18 years of age (hell, not even 25). That's not to say that there aren't folks who have done it successfully (Daniel Negreano comes to mind), but the poker world is littered with those who took a shot and missed. Also, he needs to consider how much he wants to make in his career. Assuming he plays in a ring game for a living and he wins 1 big bet and hour as a good professional does, he is looking at making $40,000 per year if he plays 10-20 (and puts in 40 hours per week). That is not a ton of $$ to live on in this day and age. Again, without knowing either of you, my advice for him would be to pursue another career or further his education right now while playing as much as he can on the side. That way, he should be able to fogure out whether he really wants to do it for a living and if not then he has a fallback. Good luck to both of you. Steve | ||
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| Re: Poker Playing as a Career, shorn, 8. May 2003 05:43 | ||
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| oops. I meant "CarBear59". Sorry... on 8. May 2003 05:42 shorn wrote: > Cardster- > > 4 POKER has pretty much covered all the things to think about. The one point that I > would emphasize is (and I don't play for living right now) that it seems to me to be a > professional player requires an immense amount of discipline and dedication (not to > mention talent). I don't know you or your son so i am certainly not passing judgment > here. However, I know for a fact that there is NO WAY that I would have ever been able to > handle such an undertaking at 18 years of age (hell, not even 25). That's not to say that > there aren't folks who have done it successfully (Daniel Negreano comes to mind), but the > poker world is littered with those who took a shot and missed. > > Also, he needs to consider how much he wants to make in his career. Assuming he plays in > a ring game for a living and he wins 1 big bet and hour as a good professional does, he is > looking at making $40,000 per year if he plays 10-20 (and puts in 40 hours per week). > That is not a ton of $$ to live on in this day and age. > > Again, without knowing either of you, my advice for him would be to pursue another career > or further his education right now while playing as much as he can on the side. That way, > he should be able to fogure out whether he really wants to do it for a living and if not > then he has a fallback. > > Good luck to both of you. > > Steve | ||
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| Re: Poker Playing as a Career, Giocatore, 8. May 2003 10:37 | ||
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| This post might sound autobiographical, but I hope it helps since I once had the same prospects as your son. I'm 26, and as far back as I can remember, I've been a "gambler." No, not a professional gambler, just someone who loved the thrill of the game, whether it be poker, roulette, horse racing or sports betting. When I was in high school, I was a big-time card player. A couple of close friends and I would organize a weekly game, and in just a few months time our game became so popular that we even had one of our town's cops show up from time to time. Overall I was a consistent winner in these games, using my vast poker knowledge at the time to prey on those hoping to make a big score so they could buy their girlfriends something nice or whatever. Poker was my only source of income during those years, and I have to admit that I had visions of being a professional poker player for obvious reasons - working your own hours, being your own boss, no strict work dress code, etc. When I finally turned 18 I decided that, given its close proximity, I would try to hit up Atlantic City once a week or so. Mind you that I went right to college after high school and successfully obtained a bachelor's degree. However, I also have to admit that I was blinded by my early success, having preyed on unsuspecting players and having won my share of money. But AC was much different than I had expected, mainly the competition. It wasn't as easy to make money as it had been, and boy did I take my share of beats from time to time. After 2 horrible months I decided that I would stop playing poker for a while because for the first time in my life, it was beginning to have an emotional impact on me. I think it's important to note that I never once considered myself a "compulsive gambler," even though it may sound so. Trust me, I knew people in those days who just couldn't stop gambling no matter what, but for some reason I always had the will power to walk away when things weren't going my way. During my hiatus from poker I pretty much focused exclusively on my academic life, and after gradution, I even went to Europe for an entire year, arguably the best year of my life. Believe it or not I brought 5 poker books with me, Sklansky among others, to read here and there because poker had been just too big a part of my life to leave it in the past. I returned back to the US in 2000 and started graduate school in January 2001. And it was then that I discovered online poker, which in a way was a blessing because there aren't any card rooms where I'm currently situated. This fall, I will graduate with a Masters degree, and I can also say that I've been working for a European financial institute for about 6 months now. As for poker, my comeback wasn't as glorious as I had envisioned. The speed of the game (online), the hands per hour and frequently "going on tilt" were overwhelming at first, but finally, after a year of playing exclusively online, I can honestly say that I learned how to beat the game. From time to time I'll take my lickings, as any successful professional will tell you, but in the end, I'm a winner. I even set goals for myself - to try to win $400-$500 a week to supplement my income, but if I fall short it's not a problem because poker is not my main source of income. And to tell you the truth, I don't think I would ever want it that way. Believe me when I say this, and I also think 4 Poker said something to the likes - poker is a tremendously emotional game. One minute you're on top of the world after beating the 3/6 game for 500, the next minute you can't feel any worse about yourself after blowing 200 in an hour at the 2/4 game and then moving up to 5/10 hoping to win it back as quickly as possible only to lose 500 more. Been there, done that. But the one thing I'm most proud of regarding my game is discipline, that through all these ups and downs, I'm fully capable of disciplining myself at the poker tables. This is something I learned to do when I was 25, and I'll tell you, at 18, like your son, I don't think it would have been possible for me to learn this. It if were my son who was 18, on the verge of graduating school, and he told me he wanted to be a professional poker player rather than attend college, I would undoubtedly be concerned. In my opinion, I just don't think an 18-year old is mature enough to bank his entire future on poker, which, after all, is a game of chance that only after years of study, practice and experience can be mastered. And I am far from a poker expert. At this stage in my life I don't know if I want to be. I'm happy with the way things are now, having a steady job and being able to supplement this income with poker earnings. I would tell your son, no matter how skilled a player he may be, that it just isn't worth risking your entire future at such an early stage in life. 4 Poker's post, as always, was very informational as well, and I just felt I could help because it wasn't too long ago that I was in your son's shoes. Hope everything works out. | ||
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| Re: Poker Playing as a Career, 4 POKER, 8. May 2003 18:22 | ||
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| Giocatore, Sometimes the most helpful and informative opinions are ones that come from our real life experiences and not ones that are taught to us from a book. Thank you for taking the time to write such an honest and straightfoward post. (The "autobiographical" approach (IMHO) has a far greater impact than most will be able to come across in any poker book). You covered some real important issues and ones that should not go overlooked. Great Post. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Poker Playing as a Career, stdioh, 8. May 2003 13:37 | ||
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| There are many professional poker players and for every one of them who is successful, there are many more who try it and fail. That said, your son is young. Were it my son, I would encourage him to learn as much about poker as possible while he is off at university, but I wouldn't want to encourage professional play. I play semiprofessionally. I make enough per hour at poker that I could do it full time, but I don't want to. What happens if I'm a pro for five years and then get bored of it and want to move on? My resume would look terrible. I work a regular day job and play in my spare time. Wren, who posts here is my girlfriend - she was playing to pay her tuition to university. Yeah. It is very possible to make a living at poker, both in brick&mortar games and also online, but it is a live that very few people can enjoy forever. Another way to look at it is this. I believe in having a profession and a trade. I consider software development my profession and poker my trade. If the one falls through, I can rely on the other to make a living. And if your son is intelligent, has discipline, and has the patience to learn, he could become a very profitable poker player indeed. | ||
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| Re: Poker Playing as a Career, john ray, 8. May 2003 16:29 | ||
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| For me, for the reasons stdioh put forth , part time is the way to go. Also, I now have a wife and 2 daughters ( something he may want to think about) I wouldn't trade poker for my girls. But for a part-time job/business what could be better. Good Luck John | ||
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| Re: Poker Playing as a Career, stdioh, 9. May 2003 09:12 | ||
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| I couldn't agree more. Family life has to come first. There's something to be said for a woman who is a full time mom and part time poker player too. | ||
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| Re: Poker Playing as a Career, john ray, 9. May 2003 17:22 | ||
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| No doubt. You are a lucky man to have Wren. I wish my wife were interested in poker, but she couldn't care less until she steals a few of my chips for the slot monster. :( | ||
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| Re: Poker Playing as a Career, CarBear59, 9. May 2003 16:07 | ||
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| Thanks to all of you for the sound advise. I had my son read all of them and he advises me that yes, he will attend college but does intend on pursuing a poker "career". I feel better knowing this and that a "career" in poker and a "regular" profession can be accomplished. I will now get off his case about this issue as long as he pursues his education also. Thanks again for all your information to put peace back into our home. | ||
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| Re: Poker Playing as a Career, noiseboy, 9. May 2003 16:40 | ||
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| Hey, just thought I'd mention that one of the best living poker players in the world today is a student. Chris Ferguson, who has won millions of dollars in the World Series of poker, is working on his PhD in mathematics. Anyway, even after making millions, he's still working on his degree and when asked what his occupation is, he will tell you he is a student. Also, the 2001 winner of the World Series of Poker was an attorney, Robert Varkony, and not a professional poker player. I'm pretty sure he still practices law, even though he probably doesn't have to. There's definitely money to be made in poker for the good players. I just won over a grand in a tournament, which isn't really that much, in four hours time, and it takes me two weeks to make that at my accounting job. Mostly, you need to keep a day job around for the health benefits and so you don't have to worry too much if I have a downswing. I'd be too stressed out if I HAD to win to make my rent or something. Anyway, don't think of your son as a "gambler", that's a whole different thing, poker is about 99% skill in the long term, although the swings in the short term can be pretty bad. Poker is becoming more and more respectable and I see a lot of professionals at the tables. Not professional poker players, I mean doctors and lawyers and such, even some other Accounting people like me. | ||
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| Re: Poker Playing as a Career, 4 POKER, 9. May 2003 17:16 | ||
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| Yes, Robert Varkony won a ton of money at the WSOP, however, A winning poker player is based on players who play on a "regular basis/or part time "whether it be in live cash games or tournament play,so you really shouldn't base someone's success rate because he has won a major event in the WSOP, that would be misleading and inaccurate). Any one person at any one given time can win a major tournament whether he is a college graduate or not,(tournaments are short term results and even though his pay out was 2 million, that was strictly his earn for only one poker game). It's the long term results that apply in poker.(I'm not saying that he wouldn't be a winning player if he was to pursue it for his career or at least part time, but you can't say that he would be, either). 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Poker Playing as a Career, stdioh, 12. May 2003 09:35 | ||
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| You're welcome. Yes, the two can be balanced quite efficiently. Where it becomes difficult is when your son finds a wonderful woman who hates his "gambling" ... then he's in for a wild ride looking for a wife who also plays poker :) | ||
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| Re: Poker Playing as a Career, Ron, 19. May 2003 17:36 | ||
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| You have got to be kidding me? Please, go get an education & get a solid job. Nothing wrong w/ trying to earn extra $$ playing poker. Remember, no health ins, you need a big bank roll & as an 18 yr old he will be spending all of his time in poker rooms & not being social like a typical 18 yr old. All of his friends will be whomever he bonds w/ in the poker rooms. Also, a strong stomach is needed for all of the highs & lows. Please, just do it on the side at this time in your life. | ||
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