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Server Time: 11/20/2009 8:44:51 PM PACIFIC |
 Avoiding Tells?, MozMan, 7. May 2003 13:26 | ||
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| Ok, I'm a pretty good hold-em player. I play at least 2 hours a week, and some weeks I'm lucky enough to have time for 10 hours or more. I play strictly low-limit (3-6) because I play to have fun. I win consistently, and earn an average about $50 a week. I had a new experience last night (actually, I'm willing to admit it's probably happened before and I was just oblivious to it). Things started out pretty much as planned. After about 30 minutes, I was up about $30... then everything changed. By the time I was back to even, it was pretty clear to me that at least 3 of the players at the table had my number. I was intrigued, and playing strictly on recent winnings, so I decided to stick around until I ran out of chips to see if I could figure out what was happening. I tried all my best stuff... I was not getting hit with unusually lucky draws (on my opponents' accounts)... everything seemed normal, except I was losing... they were doing everything right and I was obviously making mistakes. The only thing I can figure is that I was somehow telling them exactly what I had, and they were very good at listening. Anybody have any suggestions how I can look at myself and figure out how I might be giving away my hands? | ||
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| Re: Avoiding Tells?, Andrew Wells, 7. May 2003 13:28 | ||
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| Have a poker friend watch your play for a couple of hours. It's easier for someone outside of the game to pick up on anything you might be giving away. | ||
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| Re: Avoiding Tells?, MozMan, 7. May 2003 13:42 | ||
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| Thanx. Unfortunately, I don't have many friends who play (all of my friends think I'm crazy for playing poker at a casino). I do know one guy who plays pretty regularly elsewhere, I will see if I can entice him to come out with me. on 7. May 2003 13:28 Andrew Wells wrote: > Have a poker friend watch your play for a couple of hours. It's easier for someone > outside of the game to pick up on anything you might be giving away. | ||
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| Re: Avoiding Tells?, shorn, 7. May 2003 13:34 | ||
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| Always act the same way regardless of what you are doing. ALWAYS. What has helped me is that before I check, bet, call , or raise, I count to 4. When I look at my cards pre-flop, I do it for 4 seconds. Even if I see 92o, I still look for 4 seconds. I always bet with the same hand. I always stack the chips the same. Once I have made my action, I look down at the rail and stare at it until the action is complete. I know all of this sounds crazy, but if you do it for long enough, it will become rote and no one will be able to read you. Play like a robot when you are in the hand. Anything different that you do you should do for show with the purpose of drawing people in (like asking for time when you have flopped quads and facing a bet acting like you are pondering the odds for a call) when you have an unbeatable hand. But, by and large, be a robot, act like a robot, and rake in the chips. | ||
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| Re: Avoiding Tells?, MozMan, 7. May 2003 13:47 | ||
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| hmm... I like it. It reminds me of all the stuff I used to do at home plate when I played baseball in high school to get my "game face" on; tug on my helmet, tighten my batting glove, adjust my cup, draw a big X across the plate with my bat, always in that order... it gave me time to block out all of the background noise, focus on hitting, and show the face I wanted the pitcher to see. I will give it a try, too. I'm always willing to try something that might improve my play. Thanx! on 7. May 2003 13:34 shorn wrote: > Always act the same way regardless of what you are doing. ALWAYS. What has helped me > is that before I check, bet, call , or raise, I count to 4. When I look at my cards > pre-flop, I do it for 4 seconds. Even if I see 92o, I still look for 4 seconds. I > always bet with the same hand. I always stack the chips the same. Once I have made > my action, I look down at the rail and stare at it until the action is complete. > > I know all of this sounds crazy, but if you do it for long enough, it will become > rote and no one will be able to read you. Play like a robot when you are in the > hand. Anything different that you do you should do for show with the purpose of > drawing people in (like asking for time when you have flopped quads and facing a bet > acting like you are pondering the odds for a call) when you have an unbeatable hand. > But, by and large, be a robot, act like a robot, and rake in the chips. | ||
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| Re: Avoiding Tells?, 4 POKER, 7. May 2003 13:52 | ||
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| I agree with shorn's method of thinking, here. 'Robotic' One thing I'd like to add, Some players are very "Tricky" when it comes to "Fishing" for information. When a player asks you a question and it is in ANY WAY related to your hands and/or how you would play them... Don't Answer them! You can Expose more than you even realize just by saying one or two words. If you feel uncomfortable about not responding, then when they do ask you a question or are trying to "Prod "you for info, than just say, "I Dunno"! Just keep saying that everytime and they'll eventually "Get the Hint". (Don't say, "It depends", cause than they'll expect you to explain your reasoning and thought process). You might even want to try wearing a baseball cap which is pulled down low enough to cover your eyes. (Alot of emotion and "Tells" are revealed from a players eyes). Good luck. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Avoiding Tells?, Andrew Wells, 7. May 2003 14:09 | ||
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| An alternate method is to always say you have a set. It's just a matter of style and frequency of regular opponents. | ||
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| Re: Avoiding Tells?, MozMan, 7. May 2003 15:05 | ||
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| good point. I hadn't thought about that, though I am in the habit of saying "I don't remember," whenever someone asks what I had after they folded to me. on 7. May 2003 13:52 4 POKER wrote: > I agree with shorn's method of thinking, here. 'Robotic' > > One thing I'd like to add, > Some players are very "Tricky" when it comes to "Fishing" for information. When a > player asks you a question and it is in ANY WAY related to your hands and/or how you > would play them... Don't Answer them! You can Expose more than you even realize just > by saying one or two words. > If you feel uncomfortable about not responding, then when they do ask you a question > or are trying to "Prod "you for info, than just say, > "I Dunno"! Just keep saying that everytime and they'll eventually "Get the Hint". > (Don't say, "It depends", cause than they'll expect you to explain your reasoning and > thought process). > > You might even want to try wearing a baseball cap which is pulled down low enough to > cover your eyes. (Alot of emotion and "Tells" are revealed from a players eyes). > > > Good luck. > > 4 POKER > | ||
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| Re: Avoiding Tells?, 4 POKER, 7. May 2003 15:30 | ||
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| on 7. May 2003 15:05 MozMan wrote: > good point. I hadn't thought about that, though I am in the habit of saying "I don't > remember," whenever someone asks what I had after they folded to me. Yeah, as long as you say something that is totally off the beaten path and act like you don't even no what they're talking about, they'll move on to somebody else. As far as some of the other tells go...this one based on "Your Emotions", A friend of mine who happens to be a lady used to get very emotional when she first started playing poker and every emotion that she felt showed right in her eyes. Several times she even started crying, right at the table.(if she was involved in a hand and lost, the tears used to just pour right out). I felt so sorry for her. I had suggested that she wear a pair of sunglasses while sitting at the table. This was about 5 years ago and to this day, she still wears them. 4 POKER > > on 7. May 2003 13:52 4 POKER wrote: > > I agree with shorn's method of thinking, here. 'Robotic' > > > > One thing I'd like to add, > > Some players are very "Tricky" when it comes to "Fishing" for information. When a > > player asks you a question and it is in ANY WAY related to your hands and/or how you > > would play them... Don't Answer them! You can Expose more than you even realize just > > by saying one or two words. > > If you feel uncomfortable about not responding, then when they do ask you a question > > or are trying to "Prod "you for info, than just say, > > "I Dunno"! Just keep saying that everytime and they'll eventually "Get the Hint". > > (Don't say, "It depends", cause than they'll expect you to explain your reasoning and > > > thought process). > > > > You might even want to try wearing a baseball cap which is pulled down low enough to > > cover your eyes. (Alot of emotion and "Tells" are revealed from a players eyes). > > > > > > Good luck. > > > > 4 POKER > > | ||
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| Re: Avoiding Tells?, MozMan, 7. May 2003 15:43 | ||
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| You know, it's funny. I've often thought about wearing sunglasses. I wear specs and have the sunglasses that clip on the front. I see players on TV wearing them, but have never seen anyone at my casino wearing them, probably because we live in Arizona and most everybody has to wear sunglasses outside all the time and can't wait to take them off. Anyway, I always punk out and put them away because I feel too self-conscious with them on. | ||
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| Re: Avoiding Tells?, 4 POKER, 7. May 2003 15:48 | ||
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| on 7. May 2003 15:43 MozMan wrote: > You know, it's funny. I've often thought about wearing sunglasses. I wear specs and have the > sunglasses that clip on the front. I see players on TV wearing them, but have never seen anyone at > my casino wearing them, probably because we live in Arizona and most everybody has to wear > sunglasses outside all the time and can't wait to take them off. Anyway, I always punk out and put > them away because I feel too self-conscious with them on. Personally, for me... I find wearing sunglasses to be "Cheezy", but they do help if you show too much emotion. Heck, I can barely see across the table without sunglasses! (I'm sure it would be even worse if I had them on)! LOL 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Avoiding Tells?, Big_Slick, 7. May 2003 14:16 | ||
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| Have you stopped to consider that it just wasn't your night? I doubt that players at a 3/6 game were "reading" a tell. Most 3/6 players aren't nearly that sophisticated. | ||
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| Re: Avoiding Tells?, MozMan, 7. May 2003 15:07 | ||
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| You know, I have been thinking about that as a possibility... but there are a lot of players who normally play the big games (20-40, 40-80 and 80-160) who often spend a few hours at the 3-6 tables. I see them go back and forth all the time... and these guys seemed to be pretty serious players. on 7. May 2003 14:16 Big_Slick wrote: > Have you stopped to consider that it just wasn't your night? I doubt that players at > a 3/6 game were "reading" a tell. Most 3/6 players aren't nearly that > sophisticated. | ||
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| Re: Avoiding Tells?, NiceFella, 7. May 2003 21:54 | ||
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| It's hard to say without specific examples of hands you played, but I don't think you have a *particular* physical tell that other players were using against you. More likely you have a style of play that is easily decoded by experienced players who are logging 50+ hours of play per week. I would emphasize that the results you achieve over a few hours have little indication of your skill relative to the other players. I frequently have losing streaks that last several days, which can be suddenly made up in just an hour of lucky cards. Do not read too much into being up $30 at a 3/6 game. However it is certain that several of the players at the table did in fact "have your number". After a few hours of playing with a stranger, I can usually profile their level of skill and style of play closely enough to play well against them. This is not a matter of physical tells, but a matter of what cards they play and how they play them. Some players are always afraid to bet with second pair. Some players always bet on the flop if it is checked to them. Some are too aggressive, some never bluff. Some players raise JTo under the gun, some never raise with QQ. Sometimes all I can determine about a player is that they are a much better player than I am, and I try to stay out of their way. If you play in a straightforward way you will be easily read, regardless of any "robot" act. If you make any mistakes at all, better players will notice. I am certainly not denying the need to be a "robot" when playing. I do everything possible to reveal nothing about my hand when I'm in a pot. Players frequently broadcast their relative happiness with their hands, and I am quick to exploit this with a bet or raise (or fold). Take the game seriously, and use your best poker face at all times. But I would point out that the blankest poker face won't help you if your play is predictable. NiceFella | ||
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