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Server Time: 3/16/2010 7:31:34 PM PACIFIC |
 Low Limit Hold Em starting hand strategy, SendMoney, 7. May 2003 01:07 | ||
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| In the past I've been pretty frustrated with my profit/loss for my low limit Hold Em sessions, since more often than not I was on the losing end. Since then I've come up with a new strategy for starting hands that has been working pretty well for me. Basically I only play the top 20 starting hands and I'll list them in order. 1. AA 2. KK 3. AKs 4. QQ 5. JJ 6. AQs 7. AJs 8. A10s 9. AKo 10. KQs 11. 10-10 12. KJs 13. QJs 14. J10s 15. AQo 16. AJo 17. 9-9 18. KQo 19. K10s 20. Q10s From early position I usually only raise out with AA or KK, and I'll raise from middle position with the top 5 hands, and raise from late position with the top 10 hands. The only hand I ever re-raise a raiser with is AA, and I usually smooth call pre-flop with other big hands for deceptive purposes hoping to extract more $$$'s later on if I flop big. I usually only call raises pre-flop with the top 10 hands, but I might loosen that up a bit depending on how many other players are in the pot already, and how loose the table is playing. This starting hand strategy is pretty tight, but I think it's better than the alternative. Basically the only hand I pay to see the flop with that involves a 9 is pocket 9s, and I'm not playing anything else involving a 9 or lower. No 10-9 suited, no A-9 suited, no pocket 8s, no pocket 7s, no J-9 suited, and if I'm not playing those cards then I'm definitely not playing less that that. I also don't play KJo, QJo, 10Jo, A10o. Pertaining to the small blind, I don't lower my standards at all. Yes it's only a half a bet most of the time, but the position is the worst after the flop, and too often the small blind is a big money leak for most players. I also don't defend the big blind against a raise unless the cards are in the top 20 in most cases. Pertaining to the big blind in unraised pots I tend to fold very willingly on the flop to position bets. Basically I'll bet out in obvious situations like top two pair or trips, and I tend to check/call with top pair. I'll also hang around for decent draws if the pot odds warrant it. To add some spice, variety and unpredictability to my game I loosen up A LOT but ONLY on the button. On the button in unraised pots with enough callers I'll get in there with Ax suited, any pocket pair, suited connectors down to 6-7, KJo, QJo, 10Jo, J9s, 108s, 97s. I figure since the button is the very best position and you can usually get the most free cards and use the free card trick most effectively from this spot it's worth the lowering of the starting hand standards. Besides that it's good advertising to let the other players know what a big gambler I am (wink). Basically Hold Em is a game of strength, so why bet weak cards if you don't have to? People talk about the "ignorant end" of a straight. You know the guys who are willing to call 3 and 4 bets with a 9 when the board shows 10 J Q K? You've seen it, maybe you've even been there. I simply decided that I want to play big cards, and when the flop comes little I don't mind folding - but when the flop comes big I want to really hammer those that shouldn't be in the pot. Yeah sometimes I'll get sucked out on, but sometimes I'll flop a big two pair that turns into a really big boat. Besides, sometimes I'm in there fishing, but only for the nut straight or nut flush. By using this strategy I'm only seeing about 15%-20% of the flop, but by being more selective with more starting hands I get pushed around a lot less. Let me know what you guys think and if you have any good suggestions or tips I should try. | ||
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| Re: Low Limit Hold Em starting hand strategy, 4 POKER, 7. May 2003 02:34 | ||
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| on 7. May 2003 01:07 SendMoney wrote: > In the past I've been pretty frustrated with my profit/loss for my low limit > Hold Em sessions, since more often than not I was on the losing end. Since then > I've come up with a new strategy for starting hands that has been working pretty > well for me. Basically I only play the top 20 starting hands and I'll list them > in order. > > 1. AA 2. KK 3. AKs 4. QQ 5. JJ 6. AQs 7. AJs 8. A10s 9. AKo 10. KQs 11. 10-10 > 12. KJs 13. QJs 14. J10s 15. AQo 16. AJo 17. 9-9 18. KQo 19. K10s 20. Q10s > > From early position I usually only raise out with AA or KK, and I'll raise from > middle position with the top 5 hands, and raise from late position with the top > 10 hands. The only hand I ever re-raise a raiser with is AA, and I usually > smooth call pre-flop with other big hands for deceptive purposes hoping to > extract more $$$'s later on if I flop big. > > I usually only call raises pre-flop with the top 10 hands, but I might loosen > that up a bit depending on how many other players are in the pot already, and > how loose the table is playing. > > This starting hand strategy is pretty tight, but I think it's better than the > alternative. Basically the only hand I pay to see the flop with that involves a > 9 is pocket 9s, and I'm not playing anything else involving a 9 or lower. No > 10-9 suited, no A-9 suited, no pocket 8s, no pocket 7s, no J-9 suited, and if > I'm not playing those cards then I'm definitely not playing less that that. I > also don't play KJo, QJo, 10Jo, A10o. > > Pertaining to the small blind, I don't lower my standards at all. Yes it's only > a half a bet most of the time, but the position is the worst after the flop, and > too often the small blind is a big money leak for most players. I also don't > defend the big blind against a raise unless the cards are in the top 20 in most > cases. Pertaining to the big blind in unraised pots I tend to fold very > willingly on the flop to position bets. Basically I'll bet out in obvious > situations like top two pair or trips, and I tend to check/call with top pair. > I'll also hang around for decent draws if the pot odds warrant it. > > To add some spice, variety and unpredictability to my game I loosen up A LOT > but ONLY on the button. On the button in unraised pots with enough callers I'll > get in there with Ax suited, any pocket pair, suited connectors down to 6-7, > KJo, QJo, 10Jo, J9s, 108s, 97s. I figure since the button is the very best > position and you can usually get the most free cards and use the free card trick > most effectively from this spot it's worth the lowering of the starting hand > standards. Besides that it's good advertising to let the other players know what > a big gambler I am (wink). > > Basically Hold Em is a game of strength, so why bet weak cards if you don't > have to? People talk about the "ignorant end" of a straight. You know the guys > who are willing to call 3 and 4 bets with a 9 when the board shows 10 J Q K? > You've seen it, maybe you've even been there. I simply decided that I want to > play big cards, and when the flop comes little I don't mind folding - but when > the flop comes big I want to really hammer those that shouldn't be in the pot. > > > Yeah sometimes I'll get sucked out on, but sometimes I'll flop a big two pair > that turns into a really big boat. Besides, sometimes I'm in there fishing, but > only for the nut straight or nut flush. By using this strategy I'm only seeing > about 15%-20% of the flop, but by being more selective with more starting hands > I get pushed around a lot less. Let me know what you guys think and if you have > any good suggestions or tips I should try. Playing the "Premium" starting hands and understanding their strength is important, indeed. And not playing "Sucker" hands like K-9o is a good habit to get into as well. However... >There are many situations where playing J-10, K-J, A-10, 8-8 etc. etc. can be quite profitable; and not only when you are on the "Button". >These hands have their "Place", too. The "Key" to playing the "Less than Perfect" hands is knowing when to play them, which is based on your "Position", the "Tightness or Looseness" of your game, and to play them as "Cheaply" as possible with "Good Pot Odds" to continue. >If the game you are in is very passive, you "Should" be limping in more with hands like, 8-8 and J-10 suited, even from middle position. >I don't want you to play "Bad cards" or have you think that you should be "Lowering" your standards, but... These holdings when played in the "Right Game" under the "Correct circumstances" will "Add" to your earn. >When I first started playing hold-em, I was completely "Rigid" with my starting hands. Players can pick up on that very quickly and when you become too "Readable" in the game, you're "Doomed". You have to be able to "Mix It Up", even if you do it slowly, Do It. If players see that you're only playing semi-strong hands on the "Button", than they will push you around every chance they get. You will be losing money by NOT playing those certain hands, and if you are perceived as being "Super Tight"(which is ok), than you should be "Raising" more with your medium pairs instead of just throwing them away. Pick your spot "Correctly", but please, make the "Occasional" call and make the "Occasional" raise. Don't be a "Wrecklose" or anything even close to that, play solid cards, but change your betting and raising "Strategies" a little. >Be a little bit more "Deceptive"...It goes a long way. $$$ >When you become difficult to read, you will make more money.< 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Low Limit Hold Em starting hand strategy, Swagman, 7. May 2003 09:00 | ||
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| Would have to agree with 4 poker. That uber tightness will hurt you in the long run. I dont know how I could see a win with that kinda of rockish pre-flop discipline. The blinds would eat you. More importantly the few times that you did see the flop with that kind of strict adhereance and your card didnt come over the time thats an additional drain on your stash. When I first started playing that was my style and thats exactly what would happen. Id go in with strong hands but could never catch them. My stash would vanish. Slowly but it did. I was only paying the dealer off and the chute. More importantly any descent poker player that saw my old style of play would'nt pay me because they all knew what i was holding, and the few pots I did win were small ones. Late position affords you too loosen up with your card selection and I suggest that you do this. Also I strongly feel that all that kinda strict adherance to opening cards and how you should play them is geared towards higher levels of play then a low level holdem game. Not that im talking down the importance of starting hands. I just feel you'd play more profitably if you played more hands, and learned how to play these hands after the flop. | ||
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| Re: Low Limit Hold Em starting hand strategy, Andrew Wells, 7. May 2003 03:35 | ||
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| At a loose/passive table such a strategy is about break even. You will be giving up some value by sticking to just big cards. Some of those big card hands will be trouble, like AQo. There is no better game for nut draws and small sets than this one. At a loose/aggressive table such a strategy will show a small profit in the long run. However you will have long periods of mucking in between wild swings, and that can cause you to wonder why you just wait for a hand only to see it get cracked. You will do well when they keep trying to bluff you though. At a tight/passive table such a strategy is about break even, provided that you play better than the other rocks after the flop. Unfortunately you won't get many large pots when you flop a big hand. Therefore to stay ahead of the rake you will need to play a lot of less than perfect flops with those hands you choose to get involved with. At a tight/aggressive table such a strategy will slowly chip away at your bankroll. Players will be quick to figure out where you are in a hand, but unlike the tight/passive table you will pay more when you are beat. There will be fewer large pots where you have a big edge as in the loose/passive games. There is nothing seriously wrong with taking the super tight approach, but don't expect to win much either. On the other hand you will get to play longer since you won't be leaking chips. This is often a sensible way to play when things are not going well, but it less than optimal. Use the turn instead of the flop more often when you checkraise if you are limiting yourself to just these starting hands. | ||
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| Re: Low Limit Hold Em starting hand strategy, shorn, 7. May 2003 08:13 | ||
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| I agree with all of what 4 POKER and Andrew have stated with one exception. Depending on the limit that you are playing (and the medium by which you are playing, i.e., B&M vs. online), the super tight strategy can be more profitable than the statistics would suggest. Mostly, this will be more successful in low limit games where folks don't pay as much attention and also on-line games up to 5-10 where there are many fish. HOWEVER, if you wish to move up in limits during your career, then you will end up a long-term break-even or losing player by adhering to such a strict strategy. I think it is best to play this way when you are learning the game because it does limit the swings. Once you completely understand the play of the game, pot odds, and position and are comfortable with these concepts to the degree that your decisions become rote, then you should begin to alter your strategy a bit. With all of these concepts being natural movement for you, you can focus the lion's share of your time at the table on others which is where most of your long-term profit will come from. Altering your strategy in the appropriate circumstances will help you to get closer to the goal we all have: maximizing your winning hands and minimizing your losing hands. Stick with it and good luck. | ||
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| Re: Low Limit Hold Em starting hand strategy, chasepoker, 7. May 2003 09:04 | ||
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| I also think you may be losing a lot of money by not playing some hands ok 88 UTG sucks but 88 in the cut off with 6 callers already surely you have to play ? I would loosen up a little in the big pots and at loose passive tables with lots of pre flop callers ( hey thats almost all LLHE ). I am constantly changing my opinions and how i play, i went through your strategy about 6 months ago and do still play that way at times ( i am no expert though let me make that clear ). I would suggest something that helped me play each session differently for a week, try a day of being a rock, a day of playing any 2 connectors any 2 suited etc and then try a day playing of hand tables ( Slansky is good ) and see how you do. I am now slowly beggining to consistantly win at LL and attribute this to playing differnt styles all the time AND adjusting to your table, you have a table of callers only play good cards, you got a table of folders make some pure bluffs ( in the right situation ). Be prepared to take a risk from time to time and your results will get better. Cheers Chase 7 High's Chasepoker | ||
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| Re: Low Limit Hold Em starting hand strategy, Piers Majestyk, 7. May 2003 13:09 | ||
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| Playing the style that you play online will get the job done and probably will suffice in B&M as long as your not playing the same lineup everyday. I generally play 3-4 table at a time online and have a pretty strict starting requirements particularly up front but I am also not adverse to capping it off with 87s in a big multiway pot. Perhaps reading a few previous post that dealt with blind play and playing small pairs from myself and others a few weeks back will give you some insights on what approaches might be helpful to your game in these areas In B & M games I mix it up pretty regularly to keep them guessing, particularly early in a session where I am going to be playing for a long time but in online the lineups change so frequently that playing solidly the whole time will get the job done. Sure there are some players online that have a good read on me that when I raise in early position they damn well better get out unless they are very strong but by and large the majority of players at the 2/4-5/10 levels are not thinking too much about the strategy of others, at least from my 2.5 years of online play. Stay away from the trouble hands and you should be fine. This style of play at multiple tables has consistantly shown a 5-8 BB/hour win rate for me so until something changes drastically I don't see changing my game plan anytime soon. Good luck. | ||
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| Re: Low Limit Hold Em starting hand strategy, Fox, 11. May 2003 11:52 | ||
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| There's a lot of good advice in the posts for this topic, and I'd just like to add some of my observations from the 2-4 & 3-6 tables in CA, especially since I've been playing a system like yours and have been working on 'fine tuning' it over the last few sessions. At first I was playing too tight and losing. Now, I've loosened up and have a much better win rate. In addition to the good advice here (and not that means this is good), in later positions (sometimes in early positions) on loose/no-raising tables, I'll go in with a lot of stuff. I usually don't play 2 gappers under 10, or any straight draw below a 5-4 (that's just me), but to see a flop cheaply, then, here's the key, know when to stay or get out. There was a message in one of the poker books about the loose players getting into more dicey situations, and thus having more experience in them. I find that this is very true now, and has made the game more exciting for me and tends to keep my level of interest/observation up, plus my win rate (at least for now). You should still be playing pot-odds and correct poker of course. Plus one of the biggest things is getting a read on the people at your table. I've been learning this lesson lately. Good luck. on 7. May 2003 01:07 SendMoney wrote: > In the past I've been pretty frustrated with my profit/loss for my low limit > Hold Em sessions, since more often than not I was on the losing end. Since then > I've come up with a new strategy for starting hands that has been working pretty > well for me. Basically I only play the top 20 starting hands and I'll list them > in order. > > 1. AA 2. KK 3. AKs 4. QQ 5. JJ 6. AQs 7. AJs 8. A10s 9. AKo 10. KQs 11. 10-10 > 12. KJs 13. QJs 14. J10s 15. AQo 16. AJo 17. 9-9 18. KQo 19. K10s 20. Q10s > > From early position I usually only raise out with AA or KK, and I'll raise from > middle position with the top 5 hands, and raise from late position with the top > 10 hands. The only hand I ever re-raise a raiser with is AA, and I usually > smooth call pre-flop with other big hands for deceptive purposes hoping to > extract more $$$'s later on if I flop big. > > I usually only call raises pre-flop with the top 10 hands, but I might loosen > that up a bit depending on how many other players are in the pot already, and > how loose the table is playing. > > This starting hand strategy is pretty tight, but I think it's better than the > alternative. Basically the only hand I pay to see the flop with that involves a > 9 is pocket 9s, and I'm not playing anything else involving a 9 or lower. No > 10-9 suited, no A-9 suited, no pocket 8s, no pocket 7s, no J-9 suited, and if > I'm not playing those cards then I'm definitely not playing less that that. I > also don't play KJo, QJo, 10Jo, A10o. > > Pertaining to the small blind, I don't lower my standards at all. Yes it's only > a half a bet most of the time, but the position is the worst after the flop, and > too often the small blind is a big money leak for most players. I also don't > defend the big blind against a raise unless the cards are in the top 20 in most > cases. Pertaining to the big blind in unraised pots I tend to fold very > willingly on the flop to position bets. Basically I'll bet out in obvious > situations like top two pair or trips, and I tend to check/call with top pair. > I'll also hang around for decent draws if the pot odds warrant it. > > To add some spice, variety and unpredictability to my game I loosen up A LOT > but ONLY on the button. On the button in unraised pots with enough callers I'll > get in there with Ax suited, any pocket pair, suited connectors down to 6-7, > KJo, QJo, 10Jo, J9s, 108s, 97s. I figure since the button is the very best > position and you can usually get the most free cards and use the free card trick > most effectively from this spot it's worth the lowering of the starting hand > standards. Besides that it's good advertising to let the other players know what > a big gambler I am (wink). > > Basically Hold Em is a game of strength, so why bet weak cards if you don't > have to? People talk about the "ignorant end" of a straight. You know the guys > who are willing to call 3 and 4 bets with a 9 when the board shows 10 J Q K? > You've seen it, maybe you've even been there. I simply decided that I want to > play big cards, and when the flop comes little I don't mind folding - but when > the flop comes big I want to really hammer those that shouldn't be in the pot. > > > Yeah sometimes I'll get sucked out on, but sometimes I'll flop a big two pair > that turns into a really big boat. Besides, sometimes I'm in there fishing, but > only for the nut straight or nut flush. By using this strategy I'm only seeing > about 15%-20% of the flop, but by being more selective with more starting hands > I get pushed around a lot less. Let me know what you guys think and if you have > any good suggestions or tips I should try. | ||
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