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Server Time: 12/2/2008 6:20:02 PM PACIFIC |
 Ax suited--How do you play it?, spartan51, 5. May 2003 13:21 | ||
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| Just trying to identify more leaks in my game and I feel that Ax suited is a big loser for me. I tend to play this holding from middle to late position in unraised pots with many players. Would be interested in how you all play this holding and if it plays profitably for you. Thanks. (Geting pokertracker which will leave any doubt to its profitabilty/loss potential.) | ||
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| Re: Ax suited--How do you play it?, Piers Majestyk, 5. May 2003 13:43 | ||
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| I will give you my stats for the last 2.5 months on these hands. I don't play them very often unless 4 or so players have enter the pot which essentially means I am only playing them in late position or when in the BB. I will usually muck them in the SB unless I have some reason not to do so (like someone pounding on my blinds every round in which I might just put in a reraise). They have been marginally profitable for me with a couple of exceptions. One thing I should also emphasize is that I don't get carried away when I flop an A with these hands. If you don't have the ability to throw away your pair of Aces when faced with hands that likely have you outkicked you should probably not get involved with hands too often as it will cost you. Good luck. #times won $ Total $ AVG/hand A10 31 12 96.00 3.10 A9 36 10 43.25 1.20 A8 28 7 77.25 2.76 A7 27 4 -11.00 -0.41 A6 28 6 61.00 2.18 A5 24 6 174.00 7.25 A4 23 3 6.50 0.28 A3 23 2 -116.00 -5.04 A2 40 7 -24.00 -0.60 ------------------------------------------------------------------- 307.00 | ||
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| Re: Ax suited--How do you play it?, mkpoker, 5. May 2003 13:51 | ||
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| The books say play it with multiple callers for one bet only, but understand you're in it only for the flush draw, trips, or pairing both hole cards. If a single ace comes out, don't be tempted--odds are someone will have you beat on the kicker. | ||
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| Re: Ax suited--How do you play it?, 4 POKER, 5. May 2003 15:56 | ||
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| on 5. May 2003 13:21 spartan51 wrote: > Just trying to identify more leaks in my game and I feel that Ax suited is a big > loser for me. I tend to play this holding from middle to late position in > unraised pots with many players. > > Would be interested in how you all play this holding and if it plays profitably > for you. Thanks. (Geting pokertracker which will leave any doubt to its > profitabilty/loss potential.) AX suited is not a hand that should be played if there's a raise pre-flop. It is not profitable unless you are in late position with no raises. I wouldn't play these holdings in EP or MP because there will always be someone behind you who could raise. I prefer to limp in, in late position after many players have limped in as well. I want volume with this hand. Too many players fall in love with these hands just because they are suited. They're really not as strong as you think, not in a full game anyway. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Ax suited--How do you play it?, NiceFella, 5. May 2003 18:33 | ||
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| Before the flop, I play a suited ace with small kicker similarly to how I play small pocket pairs. Where small pairs need to flop a set or fold, Axs needs to flop a flush draw or fold. Both these events are about a 7:1 dog to come on the flop. This means only calling when there's a lot of limpers ahead of me, and very little chance of a raise behind. If I don't flop a flush draw, I'm out. Pairing the ace will just build a second best hand. Drawing to make two pair is just succumbing to "any two cards can win" mentality. Short-handed, being suited isn't worth much. I don't bother trying to steal the blinds with Axs, or trying to isolate a single limper with a raise. An ace with no kicker isn't any kind of a hand, and it isn't worth trying to steal a small pot with this turkey. NiceFella | ||
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| Re: Ax suited--How do you play it?, stdioh, 6. May 2003 08:18 | ||
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| The important thing with a holding is that you play it well. If you flop only an ace, you're probably no good, so you'll almost always throw this crap away. This hand makes money by hitting 2 pair or better or by making a nut flush draw. As long as you only play it for the flush draw or for the big hits, it works better than a small pair. You have about the same chance of making a flush as a pair has of hitting a set, but you can tell when you are close to making your flush so you can hang on past the flop with a draw. And when you do hit 662 on a flop while holding A6 you can usually make a lot of money from that. | ||
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| Re: Ax suited--How do you play it?, Banning, 7. May 2003 04:57 | ||
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| What is the "x"? Is it anything that is not a facecard or Ace? So is a Ten an x? That being said. Alot of you are talking about playing these hands only if you have either a flush draw or two pair. What about if your "x" makes top pair. For instance when x is an 8 and the flop is 258. The odds of the next card coming up being higher than your 8 is about 50/50. Unfortunately that is not the only worry...in a table of limpers alot of those guys could be holding a very large variety of cards and thus a card that is lower than an 8 could also fill up somebodies straight. I guess this means there are alot of "danger cards" in this situation. I might add that betting on those low cards does add some wicked deception because alot of people assume you are just trying to steal the pot. I was on the button a week ago and the flop came ragged and was checked around to me and i bet with A2...and all I had was a pair of 2s. It folded almost everyone except 1 guy. He stayed in (I had assumed with overcards) and when the turn brought an Ace he bet out and I got to raise him and make alot of extra profit. So what I'm wondering is this: How often should one bet and/or raise into the field with top (low) pair with an ace kicker??? It is hard to know exactly without some sort of cool computer analysis because as ones top pair gets lower and lower the cards under it get squished down into making more and more straights and then more and more cards above it make more higher pairs on the turn and river. At the same time this "squishing" effect that I mentioned only counts somewhat as most people won't play alot of little cards and that comes down to table reading skills. I hope that my analysis made some sense and was kinda a different perspective: and any of you that have that cool software stuff if you would be able to recommend a nice cuttoff point for betting with top "x" with an ace kicker that would be pretty helpful. | ||
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| Re: Ax suited--How do you play it?, stdioh, 7. May 2003 07:19 | ||
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| Generally an X is a 9 or lower...sometimes you can consider a ten to be an X as well. The problem with your X making top pair is obvious. There are almost certain to be higher cards on the turn and/or river and somebody out there could have an overpair. Likewise, if you hit your ace, chances are that somebody has you outkicked. And aside from that, 8-high flops are rare indeed. | ||
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| Re: Ax suited--How do you play it?, shorn, 7. May 2003 09:02 | ||
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| What you are talking about here is a semi-bluff bet or raise with your second/third pair and overcard kicker. This type of bet works if you have a reasonable chance to outdraw your opponent (if you are behind), AND the potential to win the pot immediately. The key to whether or not you should do this depends on a lot of things, but these are what I find to be most important: 1. What type of table is it? Tight? Loose? Aggressive? Passive? Tend to semi-bluff at a tighter table versus a looser table. Also, tend to semi-bluff at a passive table and not an aggressive table (since you will most likely have to pay two bets to see the turn). 2. How many opponents are left? More than 3 opponents and the chance to "win it right there" are greatly diminished, so the semi-bluff might not be the best play. So, more opponents mean less semi-bluffing. 3. Texture of the flop. Is the board coordinated? Straights, flushes, two pair? If so, semi-bluffing is less profitable (even questionable) because the drawers won't fold. If the board is T62 rainbow, then you can probably bet your A2 or A6. Don't wasted the bet on a 432 board with two suits. Anyway, I hope this helps a bit. There is a great section on semi-bluffing in HPFAP for more detail. Also the chapter in TTOP is also a good primer. Steve | ||
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