|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 11/20/2009 7:04:04 PM PACIFIC |
 When to make a crying call, mkpoker, 5. May 2003 12:58 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Still a beginner, I've been wrestling with the question of when to force a showdown when I think I'm beat, but there's a chance I'm not. For example (from a 3/6 game yesterday): From middle position, I'm dealt QQ. Ya-Hoo! I raise pre-flop, there's 3-4 callers. Flop comes Qh, 9h, 7s. Double Ya-Hoo! Opponent checks. I bet, two folds, one call. I put him on a draw--probably for the flush. Next card, 4d. He checks, I bet, he calls. Now I'm thinking, he's almost certainly on a flush or straight draw. River card: Ah. He bets. Now I think, "Everything this guy has done this hand screams 'flush draw' especially his river bet." But then I think, "Well, maybe he's trying to *act* like a flush draw and bluff me out. Maybe he was on the straight draw or he's got A9. I figure I'm beat, but I'm getting odds on the final call." (I should add, I'd never played with this guy before, but he hadn't done anything maniacal that afternoon.) So, I call. He turns over hearts and takes the pot. My question: how often do "good" players make that final bet. Would you have done so? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: When to make a crying call, Schuster, 5. May 2003 13:36 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Unless I have a super solid read on the person, I will almost always make the call. The chances that he is bluffing are usually better than the pot odds, I think. A call costs you one more bet, a fold is catastrophic. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: When to make a crying call, Risky Business, 5. May 2003 13:41 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Maybe I'm a fish, but I continue and pay him off, if not raise and pay him more!! He didn't raise preflop, or when you started in on him, so he's not on Aces or Kings, imho. He can't play you for BOTH Queens, maybe one with a big kicker. Hindsight says your only chance was for a low heart to fall, and your RAISE after the river scares him off.......nah, not with your preflop raise or constant betting. You're just screwed here.....I'd want to see it though since you said you had no read on him yet. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: When to make a crying call, shorn, 5. May 2003 13:52 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I think the key is to look at the board to see if there is anything else out there (drawing-wise) that he could have. I say there isn't with that board. However, if the pot is big then you need to be absolutely sure before you fold because as another poster points out, it could cost you 20 hours income to fold. One other thing to note is that I am much more apt to believe him because he led out after check/calling all the way. If you were first to act and you checked the river (which you should) and he bet, then there is no way I would fold because he may well bluff after you show weakness. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: When to make a crying call, NiceFella, 5. May 2003 19:19 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| There is a great chance of a bluff on the river here, and you need to call this bet. -- You are correct that there is all kinds of draw on this board, with both a flush and a straight very apparent. You think your opponent is on a draw, and he knows you think this! Regardless of what a player actually has, checking and calling tends to make opponents put a player on a flush draw. -- He has checked and called your bet on every round. By suddenly leading out with a bet on the river instead of checking, he gains a element of mystery and surprise, and hopes to scare you into folding. -- Ah is the perfect card for a bluff. It completes a flush, which he may or may not have been gunning for, but this card might also give him a pair of aces or aces up. There are a lot of possibilities. If your opponent has nothing, this scare card gives him a chance to steal your pot. -- There's about 8 big bets in the pot at this point, if I count correctly. A bluff by your opponent only needs to work once in 7 times to be profitable. That's a big incentive for him to bluff. Overall, you have to make this call, and feel okay about it. Occasionally you'll be 100% convinced you're beat on the river. But the pot is big, the bet is small, and there's a strong case to be made for a bluff in this particular situation. You lost the pot, but played your hand correctly. Better luck! NiceFella | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| If you think that the police officer will let you off the hook...., Easy E, 6. May 2003 05:46 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| ... and not raise you on the river | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: When to make a crying call, stdioh, 6. May 2003 08:15 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| You generally have to pay the guy off here unless you are 'sure' that he has a better hand than yours. If he is the sort of player who never bluffs and only bets the river when he has a monster then you can go ahead and fold, but there are enough bets in the pot that if you're going to be wrong once and make a catastrophic fold then it will cost you many hours of playing time. Be certain that you're not being played. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: When to make a crying call, Roy Cooke, 7. May 2003 09:49 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Good players do make the call when the price the pot is laying them is greater than the chance that the player has an superior hand. Accurately calculating that equation come only after considerable experience, good knowledge of the player and requires good concentration on the game! Roy Cooke | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network | Find Vancouver Businesses |
|