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Server Time: 11/20/2009 6:26:10 PM PACIFIC |
 Raising, JLenart, 5. May 2003 08:10 | ||
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| So I've been analyzing my play lately and I've think that perhaps i don't raise enough. Sure I do when know I have the best hand and even against a weaker player or for position. But my reading tells me that I should often raise to make it more expensive for players who are on drawing hands. Since I play mostly lower limits (5/10) players are willing to call the raise even when they are out of position and pot odds don't favor their call. I've also noticed that raising more often gives me much larger varience in my stack. My study is still limited, I've read Lee Jones and The Theory of Poker by Sklansky. Any thoughts? Thanks, John | ||
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| Re: Raising, stdioh, 5. May 2003 11:22 | ||
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| The idea behind it is this: If you think that you might have the best hand then you want to put money in to prevent people that you have beat now from getting free cards. If you know that you don't have the best hand, but have pot odds then you want to be calling, and if you don't have a piece of it, then you want the hell out. The thing is that if you have a good shot at having the best hand, as does another player and you two bet and raise, then you have protection as those on draws will not have odds to draw to their straights or flushes for two bets. The result of that is either that they fold or that they pay more than they should. If they fold then your chance of winning the hand goes up and if they pay then your expectation goes up as they are putting in more money than their fare share (what they would expect to get out). Either thing is good for you. Now if you have top pair second kicker, you don't know if the other player has you beat or not, but the fact of the matter is that if he wins 50% of the time and you win 50% of the time, then you are both making money off of the other people who have already paid into the hand and are either paying too much for draws or folding with money in the pot. You might think, "why do I want to fold off draws when I have the best of it?" and the reason for that is simple. If you have 4 opponents, each on a draw, then each may have an average of 6 outs, but the 4 of them might have 20 outs between them. If there are 20 cards that cause one of them to hold a monster, then you are really on the draw - you are drawing to a card that helps nobody...and you need two cards in a row that help nobody. By folding some of them out, you increase the number of cards that can come and leave you with the best hand. That you are strengthening your hand by folding the drawing hands and upping the odds that you will win the pot. If you and the other made hand each have top pair good kicker and play passively because you are not sure that you have the best of it, then the result is often that a free card comes, somebody makes a gutshot for free, and now you are calling their bets because you think you might be good. In that way passive players invite disaster by not betting when they have the best of it, but then calling other players' bets when they do not have the best of it. Follow me? Most hands are won by 1 pair and you can never have one pair and be sure that you've got the best of it. | ||
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| Re: Raising, JLenart, 5. May 2003 11:29 | ||
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| Thanks for the great response! | ||
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| Re: Raising, NiceFella, 5. May 2003 20:07 | ||
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| The number one problem I see in weak players is that they end up playing way too many junk hands. The number two problem I see in weak players is that they are timid. They check and call far too often when they should be betting, raising, or just plain folding. Yes, raising more will increase your variance. You can lose more when your hand doesn't hold up, but your pots will be much bigger when you win, and you'll lose less often. You must learn when and how to be aggressive. Also realize that sometimes being aggressive is the same price as checking and calling. Betting is often the same price as a check and a call. If you raise the flop, you sometimes get a free ride on the the turn or the river. If you raise the turn, you often get a free ride on the river. You spend the same money, but you increase your chance of winning. If you only raise when you know you have the nuts (and I can think of a lot of players who do this), then you'll rarely get a caller when you raise. Plus you'll miss out on many opportunities to protect your hand from suckouts, or to just plain steal pots that don't belong to you. I think it's almost certainly true that as a new player you aren't raising enough. That said, raising at the wrong times is only going to make matters worse for you. Knowing when you should raise, with or without a good hand, can take a lot of experience. I highly recommend reading Ciaffone and Brier's "Middle Limit Holdem Poker". After I had the basics of the game down, this book was critical in improving my game and making me a more savvy and dominant player at the table. This is a must read. It's geared for middle-limit play, but I found that the concepts work beautifully at my local 4/8 game. It's a slow read, because to get the most out of it you really have to think through the problems. I can't imagine where my game would be today without this book. Good luck, NiceFella | ||
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