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Server Time: 11/20/2009 5:01:07 PM PACIFIC |
 How Do You Handle A Maniac?, 4 POKER, 4. May 2003 16:03 | ||
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| If you had a maniac in your game, how would you handle this situation? He is extremely aggressive and raises and re-raises every hand. Would you simply just play your regular game? Would you play tighter or looser? If you were playing against this type of player in a live game as opposed to playing with him on-line, would you handle that situation any differently? Would you leave the game? Curious to find out how others feel about this. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: How Do You Handle A Maniac?, john ray, 4. May 2003 16:57 | ||
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| on 4. May 2003 16:03 4 POKER wrote: > If you had a maniac in your game, how would you handle this situation? He is > extremely aggressive and raises and re-raises every hand. > Would you simply just play your regular game? > Would you play tighter or looser? > If you were playing against this type of player in a live game as opposed to > playing with him on-line, would you handle that situation any differently? > Would you leave the game? > > Curious to find out how others feel about this. > > 4 POKER No advice for anyone ,but ,what I have been doing is: Tighten up some ,and be more passive, not so much for his play , although he will have a hand at times, but the way he at times sends the rest of the table into a pissing contest to see who can beat this guy. Then I try to take advantage with position or ck raises. Mainly, I try not to let him rattle me and patiently wait for my hands. Not sure thats the best way but I've been doing better with it. In a live game, I think it is possible to have more info on the guy and adust. Thanks 4 John | ||
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| Re: How Do You Handle A Maniac?, Swagman, 4. May 2003 20:30 | ||
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| I think everyone has been sitting at a table, catching theirs win, and losing thier second best hands, and then voila, a maniac appears. He starts raising every pot with K,10o, and reraising the solid player holding kk, betting into his low pair, etc etc. Then heres those fleeting looks at everyone at the poker table. The talk about the Jets game stop. The rock-hards with there retirement checks get this confused look on their faces, and mumble something about going to the buffet. The above average players look at this guy in disbelief cuz he just got beaten down by 8,10o on a pre-raised flop. The guy with a tie and a name tag with Hello my name is Don on his shirt, smiles and says, 'hey this game is kinda fun.' The guy wearing the gold chain around his neck, says 'your not gonna beat me again with your pocket dueces!' and make the pre-flop a 3 bet. Then theres you, waiting for the last three hours for this dude or someone just like him to sit down, and stir it up. Your glad to see the rock-hard go. You never wanted him there taking up space in the first place. More impotantly you get to take his sit and are now to the maniac's left. The maniac raises with his 10,9 off, the above average player mucks his Q,10, a guy calls, so does another guy, Don the fish-fry calls, the gold necklace with a red face and mean look raises cuz his ego is as large as his pinky ring, and you reraise with your pocker As. The maniac caps it... ...Have you hugged a maniac today? | ||
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| Re: How Do You Handle A Maniac?, 4 POKER, 4. May 2003 21:01 | ||
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| on 4. May 2003 20:30 Swagman wrote: > I think everyone has been sitting at a table, catching theirs win, and losing thier second > best hands, and then voila, a maniac appears. He starts raising every pot with K,10o, and > reraising the solid player holding kk, betting into his low pair, etc etc. Then heres > those fleeting looks at everyone at the poker table. The talk about the Jets game stop. > The rock-hards with there retirement checks get this confused look on their faces, and > mumble something about going to the buffet. The above average players look at this guy in > disbelief cuz he just got beaten down by 8,10o on a pre-raised flop. The guy with a tie > and a name tag with Hello my name is Don on his shirt, smiles and says, 'hey this game is > kinda fun.' The guy wearing the gold chain around his neck, says 'your not gonna beat me > again with your pocket dueces!' and make the pre-flop a 3 bet. > > Then theres you, waiting for the last three hours for this dude or someone just like him > to sit down, and stir it up. Your glad to see the rock-hard go. You never wanted him > there taking up space in the first place. More impotantly you get to take his sit and are > now to the maniac's left. > > The maniac raises with his 10,9 off, the above average player mucks his Q,10, a guy > calls, so does another guy, Don the fish-fry calls, the gold necklace with a red face and > mean look raises cuz his ego is as large as his pinky ring, and you reraise with your > pocker As. The maniac caps it... > > ...Have you hugged a maniac today? GREAT STUFF !!! 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: How Do You Handle A Maniac?, Nathaniel Brous, 4. May 2003 21:05 | ||
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| on 4. May 2003 20:30 Swagman wrote: <snip> > The maniac raises with his 10,9 off, the above average player mucks his Q,10, a guy calls, so does another guy, Don the fish-fry calls, the gold necklace with a red face and mean look raises cuz his ego is as large as his pinky ring, and you reraise with your pocker As. The maniac caps it......Have you hugged a maniac today? lol...nice..... of course let's tell them the rest of the story... the flop came out 2c7dAh and we get in a raising war, the turn is a Js and we raise like crazy and drop one caller. The river was an 8d and you only call my reraise (ha ha ha I knew you didn't have anything!). - Mr. Maniac Nathaniel Brous | ||
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| Re: How Do You Handle A Maniac?, Swagman, 4. May 2003 22:07 | ||
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| meant to be 'maniac's right.' ya my pocket As was blown away probably from Mr. Maniac are Don the fish. But it gambling no matter how good you think you are. | ||
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| Re: How Do You Handle A Maniac?, 4 POKER, 5. May 2003 01:16 | ||
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| on 4. May 2003 16:57 john ray wrote: > > on 4. May 2003 16:03 4 POKER wrote: > > If you had a maniac in your game, how would you handle this situation? He is > > extremely aggressive and raises and re-raises every hand. > > Would you simply just play your regular game? > > Would you play tighter or looser? > > If you were playing against this type of player in a live game as opposed to > > playing with him on-line, would you handle that situation any differently? > > Would you leave the game? > > > > Curious to find out how others feel about this. > > > > 4 POKER > > No advice for anyone ,but ,what I have been doing is: Tighten up some ,and be more > passive, not so much for his play , although he will have a hand at times, but the > way he at times sends the rest of the table into a pissing contest to see who can > beat this guy. Then I try to take advantage with position or ck raises. Mainly, I > try not to let him rattle me and patiently wait for my hands. Not sure thats the > best way but I've been doing better with it. In a live game, I think it is possible > to have more info on the guy and adust. > Thanks 4 > John Hey John, You brought up two really good points on position and patience. I know sometimes it's hard to have patience when dealing with these types of players. And when they keep winning it's even more frustrating, but you seem to have it together when faced with adjusting your game. Thanks alot. Dave. | ||
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| Re: How Do You Handle A Maniac?, jdsalinger, 4. May 2003 17:05 | ||
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| hmm depends if I have to contest with other players with him often or whether it is heads up a lot. Show him a call down with A high maybe even K high check raise a lot on the turn maybe even the river with nothing. Show or don't show him depending on what kind of emotional state you want him in. In limit hold'em I'd prefer to be to the left and actualy play a lot more aggressive/maniacal but in NL and PL I definitely want to be exactly right of him. Limp in with only the best of hands and hope he raises with a couple callers behind building pots then I pop it huge or all in and hope just he calls or take a decent pot there PS most maniacs I meet online are at the 5 or 6 max limit tables so you go heads up. In NL if the guy built up a big stack I buy 30-35% of the minimum and play super tight. Hoping to knock him off a couple of times and buildup but after I build it up around to his stack I leave because these guys can clean you in NL before you can blink. Maniacs I don't run into much in real life or stick around long because believe it or not they quickly become embarrassed unless they are geting real lucky | ||
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| Re: How Do You Handle A Maniac?, 4 POKER, 5. May 2003 01:33 | ||
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| on 4. May 2003 17:05 jdsalinger wrote: > hmm depends if I have to contest with other players with him often or whether it is > heads up a lot. Show him a call down with A high maybe even K high check raise a lot > on the turn maybe even the river with nothing. Show or don't show him depending on > what kind of emotional state you want him in. In limit hold'em I'd prefer to be to > the left and actualy play a lot more aggressive/maniacal but in NL and PL I > definitely want to be exactly right of him. Limp in with only the best of hands and > hope he raises with a couple callers behind building pots then I pop it huge or all > in and hope just he calls or take a decent pot there > > PS most maniacs I meet online are at the 5 or 6 max limit tables so you go heads up. > In NL if the guy built up a big stack I buy 30-35% of the minimum and play super > tight. Hoping to knock him off a couple of times and buildup but after I build it up > around to his stack I leave because these guys can clean you in NL before you can > blink. Maniacs I don't run into much in real life or stick around long because > believe it or not they quickly become embarrassed unless they are geting real lucky Hey, I agree. Although I do run into many maniacs in live games, there are just so many of them on-line. I wonder if that is because they really don't know how to play or is it because nobody can see them play like total fools?LOL. I don't play N/L , but I see your point there; Pot Builders, yup...DEFINITELY. Thanks for your response, I appreciate it. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: How Do You Handle A Maniac?, Nathaniel Brous, 4. May 2003 19:39 | ||
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| Comments interspersed on 4. May 2003 16:03 4 POKER wrote: > If you had a maniac in your game, how would you handle this situation? He is extremely aggressive and raises and re-raises every hand. That sounds exactly like me...you calling me a maniac? lol > Would you simply just play your regular game? Nope. Unless my regular game always had a maniac in it. You (players) absolutely must change their game to adjust to the texture of the table. > Would you play tighter or looser? Both. Most of it depends on the seating arrangement and position. If I was forced into making a concrete statement, it would be this. "In general, I would play slightly tighter before him and slightly looser after him." I would also be a little more passive headsup with him. Since he will (by definition) be willing to bet my hand for me, I will want to maximize my earn and will adjust each hand accordingly. You can't overstate the power of position in holdem and having a maniac in the game is pretty similar to having a continual kill each hand. > If you were playing against this type of player in a live game as opposed to playing with him on-line, would you handle that situation any differently? Yes, but those factors have more to do with the lower rake online and the number of hands you see online. It is easier to be more patient online (my opinion). Even with that said...I would much prefer to have him in a live game so I could take advantage of reading the entire table. I have seen maniac's get lucky enough to break many otherwise unreadable faces. > Would you leave the game? It depends. lol If I was playing over my head or on a short bankroll, it is likely that I might take a walk and see if things calm down any. If it hasn't, it's likely I'd cash out or change games. While it can be a bonus to have a maniac at the table, it can at times degenerate into a crapshoot. Maniac's can create a schooling effect (in an effort to take him down) which can be equally dangerous to yourself. The biggest factor in my decision is how the rest of the table is reacting to him/her. > Curious to find out how others feel about this. Now you know this player's perspective. - Nathaniel Brous > 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: How Do You Handle A Maniac?, 4 POKER, 4. May 2003 19:57 | ||
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| IMO, your views that were stated here were right on the money. Your very last statement, "The biggest factor in my decision is how the rest of the table is reacting to him/her," is something that I feel to be extremely important. I don't really have anything else to add, your comments are appreciated, thanks again, Nathaniel. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: How Do You Handle A Maniac?, Wren, 5. May 2003 07:15 | ||
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| I like playing with a maniac for two reasons: (1) The maniac will most likely lose a lot of money to the table him/herself and (2) (More importantly, I believe) Other players at the table become easier to read, and generally more profitable when a maniac is there. My guess is that (2) would happen predominantly at lower-limit tables, as many of the players at higher limits are experienced enough not to become frazzled when a maniac sits down. However, I find that many of the following profitable things begin to occur at my 5-10 when a player like this is at the table: - The solidish, but bordering on rocky, straightforward players start grumbling to one another, showing each other their hands and making comments on their own play and the play of the maniac. Valuable information can be gleaned from this. These players also tend to become a little frustrated, and overly determined to take the maniac's money (and, hence, get him out of the game). You can just SEE their AKs as they're frantically betting a flop of A83, desperately hoping the maniac doesn't somehow draw out on them yet again. Emotions come out, and make these players easy to read. - The moderately loose/passive players tend to become calling stations. Their thinking goes so far as "This guy could be in there with ANYTHING, so MAYBE my bottom pair/A-high is good!" Meanwhile, they pay no heed to the other players in the hand, who could very well have them beat as well. - A player or two will often go into full-blown tilt, and effectively become maniacs themselves. Then the pots can become really juicy :O) - There's a bit of a "residual effect"; when the maniac leaves, many players have trouble adjusting back down. They continue to play too loose, too passive (or whatever strategy they were using to "adjust" to the maniac, effective or not), and some continue to be on tilt. In other words, the game is generally more profitable at this point than it would have been with the same players had the maniac not wreaked his/her havoc on the table. How do I handle playing with a maniac? I think Nathaniel summed it up well by stating "a little looser when you have position, a little tighter when he has position". I do prefer to be on his left, for purposes of isolation or facing my opponents with two bets on the flop and beyond. I don't apply the "gap concept" to a maniac as I would to a more solid player. I'd likely reraise a hand like AJo against a maniac's preflop raise, whereas I would most likely fold this hand to an average player's raise. | ||
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| Re: How Do You Handle A Maniac?, 4 POKER, 5. May 2003 10:40 | ||
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| on 5. May 2003 07:15 Wren wrote: > I like playing with a maniac for two reasons: > (1) The maniac will most likely lose a lot of money to the table him/herself and > (2) (More importantly, I believe) Other players at the table become easier to read, > and generally more profitable when a maniac is there. > > My guess is that (2) would happen predominantly at lower-limit tables, as many of > the players at higher limits are experienced enough not to become frazzled when a > maniac sits down. However, I find that many of the following profitable things begin > to occur at my 5-10 when a player like this is at the table: > > - The solidish, but bordering on rocky, straightforward players start grumbling to > one another, showing each other their hands and making comments on their own play and > the play of the maniac. Valuable information can be gleaned from this. These players > also tend to become a little frustrated, and overly determined to take the maniac's > money (and, hence, get him out of the game). You can just SEE their AKs as they're > frantically betting a flop of A83, desperately hoping the maniac doesn't somehow draw > out on them yet again. Emotions come out, and make these players easy to read. > - The moderately loose/passive players tend to become calling stations. Their > thinking goes so far as "This guy could be in there with ANYTHING, so MAYBE my bottom > pair/A-high is good!" Meanwhile, they pay no heed to the other players in the hand, > who could very well have them beat as well. > - A player or two will often go into full-blown tilt, and effectively become maniacs > themselves. Then the pots can become really juicy :O) > - There's a bit of a "residual effect"; when the maniac leaves, many players have > trouble adjusting back down. They continue to play too loose, too passive (or > whatever strategy they were using to "adjust" to the maniac, effective or not), and > some continue to be on tilt. In other words, the game is generally more profitable at > this point than it would have been with the same players had the maniac not wreaked > his/her havoc on the table. > > How do I handle playing with a maniac? I think Nathaniel summed it up well by > stating "a little looser when you have position, a little tighter when he has > position". I do prefer to be on his left, for purposes of isolation or facing my > opponents with two bets on the flop and beyond. I don't apply the "gap concept" to a > maniac as I would to a more solid player. I'd likely reraise a hand like AJo against > a maniac's preflop raise, whereas I would most likely fold this hand to an average > player's raise. Wren, I think you summed it up yourself as well, great post! Thanks 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: How Do You Handle A Maniac?, stdioh, 5. May 2003 11:08 | ||
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| Traditional views on how to play a maniac say to sit on his left and isolate him when you have raising hands by reraising, but folding your little drawing hands because you know there will be a raise. I'd say that this is a good approach unless the whole table is targetting him. When that happens, I'd say that it is time to play tight, but that when there is a raise from him or an isolation bet from somebody else, you need to be more willing to cold call than you otherwise would be. In general here, pot sizes are going to be much larger than they otherwise would be, so if you're at a table where the maniac is being played to a lot, you can sit back and rock it out playing your aces and kings and ocasionally dragging a gigantic pot. | ||
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| Re: How Do You Handle A Maniac?, Swagman, 5. May 2003 14:59 | ||
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| I agree with what you said especially where you should be sitting in relationship to the maniac. Remember a true manica and a good aggressive player (aggressiveness is your friend) is a fine line of recognition for most players. You seen this alot im sure. the maniac sits down with tightwides, hoping to pay their trailer off, and the maniac often wins a large sum of money initially. Because the other players are caught up in adjustments. But then the maniac burns himself out invariably. However the aggressive player knows when to slow it down, and when to be aggressive, and this doesnt happen. But as far as how tight your gonna play or what starting hands your gonna go in with against this maniac. Consisder this. His raises are generally empty threats. The amount of money he will bring to the table is generally great. Becuase there will be others at the table that have egos and will like the action. How to approach a maniac? Dont be timid. Tighten up im not so sure. Each and every hand will bring on oppurtunety of alot of money. Be selective but take him on with his on game and be aggressive right back at him with yout superior knowledge of poker. | ||
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| Re: How Do You Handle A Maniac?, Andrew Wells, 7. May 2003 01:02 | ||
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| If I'm on the left of a maniac, one thing that will cause me to change seats is if there is a very experienced player behind me that knows I would be reraise isolating on the maniac's play with less than premium hands now. Now he can come in for three cold with hands that I don't want behind me. This makes my spot hard to play. I really don't have any preference left or right of the maniac as either spot has advantages. On the right I can bet into the maniac on the flop knowing he will raise and cause all the other marginal hands to fold. If it's a drawing type flop and someone calls two cold behind, that is very valuable information. If I flop a great hand, I can use the maniac as a checkraising station and suck anyone else who calls the maniac's bet into a huge pot. I usually just bet out a flopped set, but with the maniac on my left such a hand has about doubled in EV because everyone else will be calling two cold when it goes around again after the maniac's reraise. | ||
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| Re: How Do You Handle A Maniac?, 4 POKER, 7. May 2003 01:59 | ||
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| on 7. May 2003 01:02 Andrew Wells wrote: > If I'm on the left of a maniac, one thing that will cause me to change seats is if there > is a very experienced player behind me that knows I would be reraise isolating on the > maniac's play with less than premium hands now. Now he can come in for three cold with > hands that I don't want behind me. This makes my spot hard to play. I really don't have > any preference left or right of the maniac as either spot has advantages. On the right I > can bet into the maniac on the flop knowing he will raise and cause all the other marginal > hands to fold. If it's a drawing type flop and someone calls two cold behind, that is very > valuable information. If I flop a great hand, I can use the maniac as a checkraising > station and suck anyone else who calls the maniac's bet into a huge pot. I usually just > bet out a flopped set, but with the maniac on my left such a hand has about doubled in EV > because everyone else will be calling two cold when it goes around again after the > maniac's reraise. I prefer to have the "Maniac" act after me. When I "Want" the pot raised, I will bet, and when I want to play my hand for the minimum, I will check. Also, with the "Maniac" sitting to your left, if you get a semi-good flop for your hand, but are still uncertain of its "Strength"; one way to find out by "Not Risking" any of your chips would be to "Check", allow him to bet, and than see where the "Real" hand might be. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: How Do You Handle A Maniac?, stdioh, 7. May 2003 07:32 | ||
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| I agree with the both of you. Depending on the rest of the table there are times that you want the maniac on your left and there are times that you want him on your right. If I'm at a loose passive table then I want the maniac on my right, but if I am playing at a fairly sharky table where the maniac is the only real dead money, then I would prefer to put him on my left. | ||
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