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Server Time: 11/20/2009 9:12:56 PM PACIFIC |
 NLH tourny hand, Mark, 4. May 2003 15:35 | ||
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| This was an online NL hold'em tournament. 600 entrants. everyone starts with $150, and 1-2 blinds to start. I don't play many NL tournament, but i do play alot of NL ring games. My basic tournament stradegy was to wait for favorable conditions and make big bets. With about 100 people left and the blinds at 50-100 i had less than T700. I recently moved to a new table, where the same 3 players were limping every hand. these 3 all had around T2000. I get 10-Q offsuit in Middle positon and limp with the other 3. (2 are in front of me in the blinds, 1 behind) no one else calls. Pot = T400 the flop is 3 7 10. the first 2 limpers check. i know they're weak. they bet any piece of the board. I decide to go all -in. I've got top pair and am not worried about a bigger 10 as I expect these guys would all raise with a K or A -10. Also, my bet is approx 1/3 the their stacks and i don't expect they will risk that much with a weak draw or single over card. So i move all in and the player behind me calls! The other 2 fold ( so i read them right, 2 out of 3 ain't bad) The turn and river are a J and K, giving the caller 2 running pair to bust me. He called with JK. Here are my questions 1,) if i was going to play 10 - Q offsuit, should i have open raised? 2) should i have just mucked it to start and wait for a better situation? 3,) should i have made a small bet on the flop? (i don't think so) 4.) This is irrelevant but, did the caller make a horrible, bad, boarderline, good or great call. mark | ||
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| Re: NLH tourny hand, Pkrrookie, 5. May 2003 06:12 | ||
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| First, I probably would have open raised if I played Q10. I don't think I would have played it, but if there's any chance that a raise will knock the people behind you out, then I would raise. I think you played the hand ok after that. If i'm reading your question correctly, you limply got sucked out on. You were giving him around 2/1 on just under a 4/1 shot. | ||
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| Re: NLH tourny hand, Big_Slick, 5. May 2003 09:21 | ||
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| IMO, your opponent made a terrible call. But you see that a lot in these NLH tournys. The bad news is, the guy got lucky. The good news is, he probably thinks he's a good player. If you ever run up against him again, maybe you'll have an opportunity to take him out. | ||
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| Re: NLH tourny hand, stdioh, 5. May 2003 11:06 | ||
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| Well, he didn't need to hit both pair to beat you...either or. Secondly, calling with overcards there is universally stupid, but perhaps he thought that he had a read on you and that your all-in bet was a stone cold bluff. Of course he couldn't even beat an ace there unimproved, so that is just a bad bad call. As for your bet. Well, it's hard to say how much was appropriate to bet there, but I don't think that you made an out and out mistake. You made your move based on what the other players were like and this time you got drawn out on. | ||
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| Re: NLH tourny hand, Andrew Wells, 7. May 2003 01:18 | ||
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| I would probably wait for a better situation. You're not yet in danger of getting blinded out so QTo is not something I would fool around with. Suppose you got bet into on the flop enough to cover half your stack, how do you like your kicker now? As for the maroon calling your all-in on the flop with overcards, well there are going to be a lot of players like that because they didn't have to pay a large buy-in / entry fee. | ||
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| Re: NLH tourny hand, 4 POKER, 7. May 2003 05:16 | ||
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| To Answer Your Questions... 1. If I Was Going To Play Q-10 Offsuit, Should I Have Open Raised? <"NO"> 2. Should I Have Just Muck It To Start And Wait For A Better Situation? <"Absolutely, Q-10 Is A "Trouble" Hand And You Shouldn't Be Risking Your Chips With This Holding, Especially In That Position. It's Even "Worse" In A NL Tournament. The Hand Makes Many "Second Bests".< 3. Should I Have Made A Small Bet On The Flop(I Don't Think So)? <"You Answered Your Own Question, And Correctly I May Add. That's The Problem With "These Types Of Hands", Unless You Flop A Straight Or A Full House, You "Never" Know Where You're At".< 4. <This Is Irrelevant But, Did The Caller Make A Horrible, Bad, Borderline, Good Or Great Call? < 'He Made As Good A Call With His Hand As You Had Made With Yours, Pre-flop And On The Flop (All In?)"< 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: NLH tourny hand, Mark, 7. May 2003 09:15 | ||
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| Thanks for you responses. I would like you thoughts specifically on my playing the 10-Q pre-flop. Some thought playing it was okay others disagree. I wouldn't normally play it out of early middle position in a 10 handed table in the later stages of a tournament, however i thought i had compelling reasons to. 1.) I was first to come in 2.) the 3 players i was sure would call were playing every hand 3.) these same 3 players were raising with any 2 premium cards, so i though i would know their strength before the flop. 4,) 2 of the players were in the blinds and i was sure they'd call a raise no matter what. 5.) the 3rd player was in late pos and i expected him to raise as low as 10 J. ( so i would have a good idea of what he had) Basically, i thought i could out play my opponents as i had good reads on them. I didn't think raising would limit the field and i thought i probably had the best hand. I thought ( and still do) that these factors make playing the hand correct. However, raising preflop may have been a better play. what does everyone think? mark | ||
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| Re: NLH tourny hand, 4 POKER, 7. May 2003 12:50 | ||
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| "No, Raising with Q-10 is not the "Correct" play, ESPECIALLY if your opponents are aggressive. "Calling" would be "incorrect" as well. You are putting yourself in a "Position" to playing this hand for "Extra Bets"... Why? Just because you were "First In" and thought that you would be able to tell the strength of your opponents hands because you had "Good Reads" on them, is NOT a good reason to play a "Weak" hand. "How can you possibly "Outplay Your Opponents" with such a hand"? The hand itself,(Q-10) has NO strength whatsoever unless you flop "The Nuts". If you flop a "Q", you could very well be "Outkicked", if you flop a "10", you could be "Outkicked", as well. The hand is "Simply Not Strong Enough To Play". "It Is A Trouble Hand, And Should Be Looked At As Such". You said that you were "Sure" that "3" players "Would" call because they were playing every hand. "ALL the more reason not to get "Involved". You also said that these same 3 players would "Raise" ANY Pemium Cards...What if they raised just a "Little Bit" preflop?...Would You Call?... And what flop do you think would be a "Good Enough" flop for Q-10? "Why would you want to "Risk" ANY of your chips if you "Know" that there will be a "Good Chance" that one of them would raise preflop, including the overly aggressive player who would raise with "J-10" "?(that hand is bad, too to raise with, but SO IS Q-10! And it's a bad hand to "Call" a raise with as well, even if your opposition IS holding J-10). "Don't Waste Your Chips On A Bad Hand, And NEVER Commit Yourself To CALLING A "Weak And Trouble" Hand In That Position,Either." As far as his call with the two overcards? Well, he proably shouldn't have called either, but you must "Think" about "Your" own "Play" FIRST, because that is more the issue."Correcting Your Mistakes" right from the "Start". I'm not sure "Exactly" where Q-10 actually "Ranks" on the "Premium Starting Hands Lists", but I bet you that it Doesn't Rank High or even "Close" to that ! 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: NLH tourny hand, shorn, 7. May 2003 13:05 | ||
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| I agree with you 4 POKER. You can limp with this hand but you must get away from it if raised. I probably wouldn't limp at an aggressive table as you are basically throwing away those chips (unless I was on the button or in the cutoff). I think QT is a "Group 5" hand in the rankings at best, maybe even Group 6. By the way, what is the deal with all of the quotation marks in your posts today? Did I miss something? Just curious... Steve | ||
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| Re: NLH tourny hand, 4 POKER, 7. May 2003 13:23 | ||
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| on 7. May 2003 13:05 shorn wrote: > I agree with you 4 POKER. You can limp with this hand but you must get away from it if raised. > I probably wouldn't limp at an aggressive table as you are basically throwing away those chips > (unless I was on the button or in the cutoff). > > I think QT is a "Group 5" hand in the rankings at best, maybe even Group 6. > > By the way, what is the deal with all of the quotation marks in your posts today? Did I miss > something? Just curious... > > Steve Let me put this in quotation marks... "Forget what I said about playing "Pro".... Your too observant for me, and I wouldn't want you in my game"! Dave | ||
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| Re: NLH tourny hand, shorn, 7. May 2003 13:27 | ||
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| Good one. I just wasn't sure if it was a quirk in the system or if you were over-emphasizing" because someone had given you a hard time or what. You gotta stop swelling my head on the Pro thing...I still need five more years or so to be confident enough to even think about it, but thanks for the ego stroke :o) . | ||
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| Re: NLH tourny hand, 4 POKER, 7. May 2003 13:31 | ||
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| on 7. May 2003 13:27 shorn wrote: > Good one. I just wasn't sure if it was a quirk in the system or if you were over-emphasizing" because > someone had given you a hard time or what. > > You gotta stop swelling my head on the Pro thing...I still need five more years or so to be confident > enough to even think about it, but thanks for the ego stroke :o) . "Oh no, not at all, (No hard time),I was just trying to make it look better... I guess not, LOL !! Dave | ||
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| Re: NLH tourny hand, shorn, 7. May 2003 13:36 | ||
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| Hey, everything you put in quotes was appropriate, don't get me wrong. It was just hard to look at because it was so busy!! | ||
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| Re: NLH tourny hand, Andrew Wells, 7. May 2003 14:32 | ||
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| Just muck this one and save your chips for something useful like stealing the blinds. | ||
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