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Server Time: 11/20/2009 6:08:38 PM PACIFIC |
 How do you play pairs in the hole?, Big_Slick, 3. May 2003 11:27 | ||
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| I'm a little fuzzy on what the better plays are (in general) when you are holding low and mid pairs. Heck, even the high pairs. I know that there are a lot of other factors to consider like position, number of players, type of players, etc. But I'm talking in general. I'm looking for some thoughts to get my mind working on this subject. Lets assume that I'm playing 3/6. And can stay for the turn for a 1bb. I'm guessing that I'm going to fold any mid or low pairs after the flop in the midst of a raise unless I made trips or have a shot at a solid straight. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks as always. | ||
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| Re: How do you play pairs in the hole?, SendMoney, 3. May 2003 12:45 | ||
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| First of all you should put your pocket pairs into groups. Many people like to group the top pairs into a "Premium" group of AA KK QQ and JJ, but I look at it differently. Premium - AA only Strong - KK QQ JJ Medium - 10-10 99 88 77 Littles - 66 55 44 33 22 Aces have to be put into a category of their own, since it is the hand with the most betting power pre-flop, and it can take down some monster pots. Some people like to limp with pocket aces pre-flop, but I recommend against it, I believe you should get as much money into the pot pre-flop as possible with Aces, and at the same time you're going to shake out a lot of smaller hands that could catch freak flops and beat you. By raising and re-raising you'll hopefully be up against smaller pocket pairs, or hands like AK or AQ, all of which are big underdogs to you - while you're not a guaranteed winner, you're increasing your odds of taking the pot versus fewer opponents. KK QQ and JJ are slightly more problematic. Depending on the action at your table you could make a case for raising with any of them in unraised pots in any position - if you were to raise under the gun with JJ people don't really know if you have that hand or AA KK AKs QQ AQs so you might fold a lot of hands like A10o KQo or similar hands that might beat you on the flop, thus increasing your odds. In raised pots I usually like to limp with these hands, because it's a deceptive play and I'm not revealing the strength of my hand. These hands should be bet and or raised for value on the flop when they are overcards to the board, or if you flop the set you're hoping for. However if the flop comes with an ace and you're pretty sure someone (like a pre-flop raiser) has got the ace, don't get married to these strong pairs, it's a better long term play to fold right there. If they do have an ace you probably have two outs to beat them by the river, and if they have AA then you're drawing dead. The medium strength hands of 10-10 thru 77 might be worth a call UTF or in early position if the pre-flop raising at your table isn't too wild. In middle or late position they're worth a call and you might even raise them in late position (especially on the button) if you want to steal the blinds or knock them out. By doing this you might thin the field of weak over cards like Kx Qx Jx and so on, thus increasing your odds. With these cards you should probably either flop a set, flop over the board, or some sort of a good straight draw such as pocket 9s with a 7 9 10 rainbow flop. If you don't get any such thing you should try to steal the pot on the flop with a position bet, and if they don't bite hopefully you'll get another chance on the turn and maybe a free card on the river to get a feel for where you stand. These medium pairs should probably be folded pre-flop to an early position raiser if you're in middle or late position unless there are many other callers, but they're strong enough to play on the blinds against a late position blind-stealing raise. Littles 66 thru 22 are a big money leak to a lot of players. A lot of people will always call pre-flop with any pair, even under the gun, and will even call a raise with these small pairs hoping to flop a set. In order for small pairs to be a good value you need to play them in middle or late position against many opponents in unraised pots. You should fold these small pocket pairs to pre-flop raisers if you have to pay full price, and perhaps call a raise versus multiple opponents if you're on the blinds especially if your bet closes the pre-flop betting. If you have a lot of players in an unraised pot and you do flop your set, you could get a lot of action and drag a big pot. The problem with flopping a set into a raised pot is the possibility of a larger set, or all the suckouts like straights, flushes, and top two pair turning into bigger full houses. The play of the small pairs is slightly simpler than bigger pairs though, you could easily say the idea is flop a set or fold. They also make a decent position bet opportunity if you're in late position or on the button and it's checked to you. In this case a bet is probably appropriate, no reason to give overcards a free ride, but watch out for the check-raise, in which case you should fold. In summary here are my basic rules for pocket pairs: Flop a set - bet the junk out of it, of course, except when the board looks really scary on the turn or river - then you have to be a bit more cautious. Overpair to the board - You should bet or raise in unraised pots, and bet or call in raised pots. The higher the overpair the better. Flop under the board - If you're convinced someone has top pair, fold. Otherwise use your pair as a position bet to knock others out. If they don't go for it take a free card and play defense. A heads-up bet or call on the river might be OK if you like your chances. If 2 or all 3 board cards are over your pocket pair then you should fold to a bet unless you have an open-end straight working. I see a lot of weak player call all the way to the river with pocket pairs under the board, and hell, sometimes they even catch on the turn or river and drag a big pot - people will tell them "nice hand" - but they're really thinking "stupid calls, lucky catch." Think about what type of player you want to be. | ||
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| Re: How do you play pairs in the hole?, SendMoney, 3. May 2003 12:57 | ||
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| A few more thoughts on pocket pairs. By their nature pocket pairs are the same rank and offsuite - so they offer you the WORST chances to make a straight and/or flush. In this sense you have to play them for their betting power, going for trips or the big full house. Since they're not very versatile you'll have to recognize that when the board is 3 or 4 to a straight or flush you might be in big trouble with no back up or way to recover. I mean you know how many times I've seen a guy call re-raises on the river with AA and a board like of 2 8 9 10 J, or black aces call against a 4 heart board. Don't be that guy, recognize when you're beat on the river and save the bet(s). | ||
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| Re: How do you play pairs in the hole?, mroban, 3. May 2003 13:56 | ||
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| I totally agree with you Send, but just one added thought - a nice advantage to KK or QQ is that its the only pairs that can make the nuts without improving. A problem (a high class problem at that) of AA is that there usually is the threat of a straight on the board if you flop a set. While KK is slightly worse odds than AA I still consider KK a premium pair. There is only a 23% chance of an overcard, so you aren't that big an underdog to AA. AND, there is only an 11% chance of flopping an overcard an no set. So 89% of the time, KKs will hold up on the flop. With QQ, there is a 41% chance of flopping an overcard, so QQ to me is a much more problematic hand than KKs (at least percentage wise). 31% of the time you get an overcard and no set. So the flop will hold up only 69% of the time (and 53% for JJ). So for me, I group them AA and KK as premiums and QQ and JJ in the next tier. After JJ the odds are that you will flop an overcard and not hit your set. So aguably, no pair less than JJ warrants calling 2 preflop raises cold. | ||
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| Re: How do you play pairs in the hole?, SendMoney, 3. May 2003 14:05 | ||
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| You said that only 11% of the time should the flop contain an Ace and no King - hmm, maybe it's just my perception but I'd say online there is an Ace and no King on the flop 33% or the time when I'm holding KK, I think that's why people call them ace magnets. Maybe I just forget all the times I raise with KK, the flop comes K 9 7, I bet, and everyone folds. Those tiny pots aren't all that memorable. That is true about the AA flopped sets, they do open the possibilities of the high/low straights, I don't know why but I never really thought about that, but I do see Ace sets get beaten by A-5 AND 10-A straights ALL THE TIME. Maybe I will add KK to the Premium list. | ||
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| Re: How do you play pairs in the hole?, mroban, 3. May 2003 14:40 | ||
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| Its funny, I didn't say it FEELS like 11% but yes, that is the correct statistical reality. KK is far and away a nice consistent winner over time and I almost always bet preflop with it. | ||
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| Re: How do you play pairs in the hole?, Big_Slick, 3. May 2003 13:29 | ||
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| Wow... excellent reply. I am always amazed at the great insight and advice that everyone offers here. I'm printing this one off to review later. Thanks, SendMoney | ||
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| Re: How do you play pairs in the hole?, stdioh, 5. May 2003 09:41 | ||
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| Generally, before you learn to get fancy, pairs should be played thusly: Big pairs - raise or reraise. Try to play against a small field so that your overpair will stand up. You want 2 or 3 callers max. Small pairs play well only if heads up or against lots of players. So in early position you might chuck your small pair or call depending on table texture, but you want 5+ opponents. Then on the flop, follow the rule of no set = no bet. When you hit your set then you've got a monster and play it appropriately. If you can get heads up with your pair then do it...so raise them in late position in a hand where everybody has folded to you and you are on the cutoff or puck. Playing them heads up on the flop is generally difficult as you don't know where you stand, so when in doubt try to steal with them or get rid of them. When your opponent doesn't hit, you're not going to make a lot of money and when he does you are either going to lose a fair chunk or you are going to throw them away. Long and short of it is this...play your small pair like you would play AX suited. | ||
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