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Server Time: 3/16/2010 7:53:41 AM PACIFIC |
 KILL: How does it change strategy?, flintsword, 2. May 2003 11:28 | ||
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| Whenever someone proposed a game with a "Kill", I sort of edged away from the table with a nervous look and headed for the safer-sounding games. A long time ago, I recall my first reaction was "Someone has to DIE in this game?? Are there different variations of the kill concept and how does the presence of a "kill" influence your basic strategy in Holdem and 7card stud? Thanks for the basic info. | ||
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| Re: KILL: How does it change strategy?, Easy E, 2. May 2003 11:37 | ||
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| Depends on how the other players react to the higher stakes. I generally raise more, while tightening up somewhat on my starting hands. The same plays that are "right" at the lower bets are even MORE right at the upper bets, since there are more dead blinds in the pot to begin with. | ||
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| Re: KILL: How does it change strategy?, TKarrde, 2. May 2003 12:09 | ||
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| I have always played it the same way. But the thing I don't understand is.. is the guy who won two hands in a row forced to post the next hand? Seems like he is I just haven't played that close of attention. TK | ||
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| Re: KILL: How does it change strategy?, Easy E, 2. May 2003 12:14 | ||
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| on 2. May 2003 12:09 TKarrde wrote: > I have always played it the same way. That's probably a mistake. Take advantage of those that tighten up AND those that loosen up, by raising more. " But the thing I don't understand is.. is the guy > who won two hands in a row forced to post the next hand? Seems like he is I just haven't played that close of attention." Depends on the kill policy. Some kill games are based on scoop pot size (minimum threshold). Others, that you are referring to, are based on winning X hands in a row (i've only ever heard of 2 in a row, never higher... but that might be my limited knowledge) | ||
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| Re: KILL: How does it change strategy?, flintsword, 2. May 2003 13:01 | ||
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| Ok, so now we can get specific: Can you please give a few detailed, different, "kill policies" that you know of? What specific strategy changes does each demand of players wanting to maintain there earn rate despite the change? With each kill policy, I will open a new message on that kill policy asking for strategy advice from the pros. This is probably the most painless way of getting input from the forum from what appears to me to be an ill-understood part of the game. Thanks for the detailed effort and I think we will all learn something here. flintsword | ||
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| Re: KILL: How does it change strategy?, stdioh, 2. May 2003 13:43 | ||
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| Vancouver Kill Game: When a player wins outright a pot that goes past the flop and has at least $X in it (5 BB?) the player gets the half kill button. If a player wins such a pot while in posesion of the half kill (won it on the last hand) then there is a kill hand. The player who just got the hand now has a full kill button and must post a double sized big blind while the SB and BB just post their single sized blinds. All betting is doubled. If the full kill wins the hand outright yet another kill pot takes place. Strategy: Play kill hands as if they were regular hands and take advantage of players who make mistakes based on the fact that it is a kill hand. Make slight adjustments based on your position as it relates to the positions of the SB and BB as well as the KB, since the KB (Kill Blind) could be on the puck or anywhere else, for that matter and if in late position will very very often defend. | ||
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| Re: KILL: How does it change strategy?, flintsword, 3. May 2003 20:12 | ||
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| So in essence there are three elements to factor in when a full kill is "in play": (1) Position with respect to the KB (Kill Blind), (2) Tight players tend to become tighter, & (3) a fish magnification factor partially due to defense of a KB when it should not be defended. Ok, if you have the Kill and posted the KB in MP. Do you use the same hand and player evaluation criteria to defend a KB as you would a BB or should a "maniac player factor" be used. By maniac player factor, I mean discounting aggressive betting action as being representative of the player, rather than the cards. | ||
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| Re: KILL: How does it change strategy?, stdioh, 5. May 2003 09:03 | ||
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| Generally speaking, if I try to avoid having to post a KB. If I win a pot and get the half kill, then my standards for playing a hand go way up and I am very tight. The idea is that if I'm going to pay a KB that is equal to a big bet on the hand, and I can't expect to have playable cards, so I essentially think of it as if the pot on that hand is getting raked by a BB. I'll generally only play the most premium hands here. The exception to that is if I was going to end up on the big blind anyway. In that case, posting a KB isn't that bad simply because you're only paying an additional small bet over what you otherwise would an you get the fish factor in there. If I do end up posting a KB I generally play it like I would a post as a new sitter on the table, except that there is less free money out there so I am tighter. | ||
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| Re: KILL: How does it change strategy?, stdioh, 2. May 2003 13:38 | ||
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| I like kill games for one reason: If I can beat a table it almost certainly contains some players who aren't very smart - and those players become even worse players when there is a kill. I will discuss the 10-20 kill game that is played in Vancouver at the Great Canadian Casino branch that is in the Holliday Inn there. Player wins the half kill button and thinks it is a good thing - seems about half the players want the kill - and says, "I have to play my kill button," then limps in with 72o - happens a tonne. Player wins full kill button and the table goes wild with ricoculous attempts to steal this huge blind money - not realizing that 3.5 small bets at double stakes is not much more than 1.5 small bets at regular stakes. And then there are the players who are bordering on rockish...the kill drives them over the edge and they won't play it unless they have something amazingly good. And then there are the same guys who "defend" their half kill button who have to play their kill button to the river just in case they get it again! I'd say that I beat the 10-20 in Vancouver for about 1.5 bb/hour (though it is hard to say as I haven't logged too many hours there - I have to rely on my estimation from experience - and yes, the game is *that* good), but when there is a kill going on it amplifies bad play so much, that I wouldn't be surprised if I could be beating the 10-20 kill there by 1.75 bb/hour or even more. The bad play just goes through the roof - not random play but predictable bad play. | ||
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| Re: KILL: How does it change strategy?, TKarrde, 2. May 2003 13:52 | ||
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| Does Kill play continue if the same player wins again? I thought it does but it just doesn't happen that often. (The bets don't double AGAIN do they?) | ||
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| Re: KILL: How does it change strategy?, stdioh, 2. May 2003 14:13 | ||
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| The bets don't double again. You just play another kill hand again and the kill player must post another kill blind. | ||
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