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Server Time: 11/20/2009 9:09:01 PM PACIFIC |
 Online Poker for Money(kinda long), Randall Edmunds, 1. May 2003 17:55 | ||
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| Most people here seem to speak highly of online poker so I am hoping that some of you can alleviate my fears and reservations about opening real money accounts at any of the online poker sites. Here are some of the issues that I am worried about: 1) Sending money to an unknown company which is located outside the U.S.( and presumably not affected by any U.S. gaming laws or regulations). Even though these sites use the names of big time players (Mike Caro, Mike Sexton, Phil Hellmuth, etc.) are these people really involved in the actual businesses, or did they just sell their names and reputations to these companies? What happens if one of these companies decides to close its doors with all the money in our accounts? Is there any recourse? 2) Cheating: What is to stop numerous people working in collusion from getting on the same table and taking money from the others at the table. It seems that 4 or 5 people working together on one table could have quite an advantage. 3) When I play for fun at some of these sites, some unusual things seem to happen; e.g., when I am playing at 2 tables at the same time I often get the same hand on both tables. This seems to happen much more often than chance would dictate. Does this ever happen to anyone on the real money tables? It would seem to indicate a serious problem with the random number generator which could be exploited by competent computer folks. O.K.--bottom line, I would really like to play for real money online, but I also want to feel that my money is safe and that I will not be cheated. Can anyone reassure me and/or give recommendations for the best sites? Or just share your experience. Thanks loads, Randy Edmunds | ||
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| Re: Online Poker for Money(kinda long), chasepoker, 1. May 2003 19:24 | ||
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| I play loads on line and do ok. Collusion is always a posibilty though at low limits and in tournys it seems less likely, as for whether " on line poker is rigged " see the several thousand postings in the archives here for peoples views. I beleive the bigger the site the more likely the security, i play at Paradise and have cashed in and out really easily even from the UK so i would go for that one. People speak highly of Ultimate bet and i like Poker Stars for larger comps. I would say dip you toe in with a $50 buy in play some $10 tournys at Paradise or some $1-2 Limit HE. If you dont like it leave !!! Cheers Chase 7 High's Chasepoker | ||
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| Re: Online Poker for Money(kinda long), 4 POKER, 1. May 2003 20:33 | ||
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| Well, there is no recourse if you are cheated because the U.S. Does not support the on-line sites. And yes, there is always a possibility of the site closing its doors. And yes, there are cheaters out there and players do collude on poker sites, and we would be kidding ourselves if we didn't think that this was a reality, because it is. But, now that I've covered the dark side!... If you do decide to play on-line, and thousands of people do, choose a site that has been around for a while or one that has been recommended to you. There are many many players who do very well with on-line poker and their money was made legitimately. Don't put too much money in your account so you won't have to get nervous about it. If you do start to win, then cash out from time to time as well; this way your money is never in real jeopardy.(that is what I do) As far as collusion, players do cheat, but I think that goes on more at the higher limits. To decrease your risk of being cheated, I would recommend doing two things. One, don't play high limit, and two, don't play at a short-handed table.(At a 5 player max table, it is so much easier for two or more people to be colluding with one another over the phone giving them a great advantage). If you play in a game that is completely full, it will be harder for them to cheat. Yes, it can still be done, but they will have an easier time accomplishing their goal if the game is short. I play in games that are low limit and in ones that are completely full. I used to play in a 10-20 Omaha game with a 5 player max but that made me feel a little nervous. I thought, "ya know, it would be real easy for just two of these players to be cheating here". When the game is full, your chances become stronger to overcome someone who might be cheating. It still sucks, but you're better off in a full game. After you play for awhile, and get a good feel for the site, the graphics and the players, I think you'll be more comfortable with it. I had the same reservations that you are experiencing right now, but after I got into it, I felt completely secure and confident with my decision to play on-line. Best of luck to you in whatever you decide. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Online Poker for Money(kinda long), JasonHoldEm, 1. May 2003 21:03 | ||
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| on 1. May 2003 17:55 Randall Edmunds wrote: > 1) Sending money to an unknown company which is located outside the U.S.( and > presumably not affected by any U.S. gaming laws or regulations). Even though > these sites use the names of big time players (Mike Caro, Mike Sexton, Phil > Hellmuth, etc.) are these people really involved in the actual businesses, or > did they just sell their names and reputations to these companies? What happens > if one of these companies decides to close its doors with all the money in our > accounts? Is there any recourse? Unfortunately, you will be stuck if they walk. They are outside the US and therefore the gov't couldn't do anything about it. The real answer to your question requires examining the problem more closely. The big sites are making millions and millions of dollars a year, why would they close up shop and walk away with (at most) the equivalent of half a year to a year's worth of profits in player bankroll? The smaller sites might be a little bit more dangerous (but still relatively safe), if you stick to the big sites I'd say there is somewhere around a .00000000000000001% chance of this happening. > > 2) Cheating: What is to stop numerous people working in collusion from getting > on the same table and taking money from the others at the table. It seems that > 4 or 5 people working together on one table could have quite an advantage. > What's to stop them? You...being observant. Collusion happens in real life at casino's as well, and the scumbags are caught the same way, someone being observant and catching them in the act. What's nice is online collusion is much easier to catch. Everything is stored in a database, so if you suspect it you can send an email to support and they will investigate it. Again, another advantage of online play is that it takes you exactly 3 seconds to change tables (or sites for that matter) if you suspect something is amiss...in real life the option to move isn't so easy. Also, I'd say there is very little danger of collusion in low limit, there's simply not enough profit in it....if someone is going to take the time to put a team together and work out all the details of how to work togther and cheat people, they're going to do it in the bigger limits and make their money there. > 3) When I play for fun at some of these sites, some unusual things seem to > happen; e.g., when I am playing at 2 tables at the same time I often get the > same hand on both tables. This seems to happen much more often than chance > would dictate. Does this ever happen to anyone on the real money tables? It > would seem to indicate a serious problem with the random number generator which > could be exploited by competent computer folks. If you pick 30 people out a crowd at random there's a 75% chance that two of them will have the same birthday...statistics can be funny. This goes back to my point about 1, these sites are making millions of dollars a year, they will do everything in their power to keep the games safe and fair, otherwise people will leave the site and their profits will go down the tubes. Trust me, the deals are random. > > O.K.--bottom line, I would really like to play for real money online, but I > also want to feel that my money is safe and that I will not be cheated. Can > anyone reassure me and/or give recommendations for the best sites? Or just > share your experience. Stick to the big sites (paradise, party, stars, etc), these sites have been proven to stand the test of time, also they'll be where you can find the game you want at the limit you want 24 hours a day. Andy Glazer (Editor of Cardplayer Magazine) wrote an excellent article entitled "Ten Reasons Why You're Not Getting Cheated Online" I suggest you check it out. :-) Link: http://www.cardplayer.com/op5.php?sec=artx After you do, pick one of your favorite sites and take the plunge, you'll soon be asking yourself "why didn't I do this earlier"? Good luck, see you at the tables, jHE | ||
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| Re: Online Poker for Money(kinda long), Andrew Wells, 1. May 2003 21:11 | ||
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| If I remember correctly didn't Doyle Brunson get involved with a start-up site, and wound up reimbursing all the player accounts out of his own pocket when the site collapsed? | ||
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| Re: Online Poker for Money(kinda long), JasonHoldEm, 1. May 2003 21:16 | ||
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| I'm not sure about that one...I know there was a smaller site that went belly up and the operators walked away with the player's money...that was before my time though.... | ||
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| Re: Online Poker for Money(kinda long), Giocatore, 1. May 2003 21:23 | ||
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| I agree with 4 Poker in his advice to avoid 5-player max tables, especially if you're just starting out. I think I might have mentioned this before, but anyhow, since you brought up the topic of collusion, another thing to look for is where players are from. Obviously you're going to see many players from Las Vegas, Los Angeles, New York, London, etc. However, do keep an eye out for 2 or more players at the same table, particularly a short-handed table, from a same town which you have never heard of. A few weeks ago I was about to sit down at a 3/6 5-player max HE table when I noticed 2 people from "North Wilkesboro." I decided to observe that table for 10-15 minutes, and it didn't take long to notice that they obvious knew one another and were using messenger to share their hole cards. How did I come to this conclusion? For starters, they were sitting next to one another, and if everyone folded the SB would always call and then both of them would check it down or one would bet and the other would fold, evidently because the one knew he had the other beat. If there was action before the flop, the first one to act would pause, obviously because he was on messenger and wanted to see what his buddy had. And finally, if both were involved in a pot with 1 or 2 of the remaining players, it would never come down to a showdown between the 2 players from "North Wilkesboro." There is no doubt in my mind that these 2 players were colluding, and although it's rare, it's definitely something to be aware of, especially in short-handed games. Hope this helps. | ||
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| Re: Online Poker for Money(kinda long), TKarrde, 2. May 2003 09:37 | ||
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| My two cents on collusion: I really really hate to admit doing this. But I got a friend interested in playing online. He wanted us to share our hole cards. We did this for an evening or two. It wasn't worth the effort. At low limits you have to consider this: You really can't bluff someone out of a pot. It just so rarely happens. And sharing the cards didn't give us any real benefit as we hardly were in the same hands at the same time. I guess it could have helped knowing you had one less out or so but not for us. It did work one time. He had pair of Aces on the flop. I had crap (free big blind). One other person in. Straight and flush draw on the board. He bet and told me to fold. I said... you want me to raise to get this guy out? He said yes. Guy folded. Now that I have admitted to my sin do I get exonerated? We don't do it anymore. I mean we share hole cards some. Usually after the flop when one of us is out. But that is just because the guy out wants to know what the guy in is playing with. But 1) it isn't worth it a the low levels 2) it would be too much work 3) it just plain ain't any fun. Don't hate me guys, TK | ||
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| Re: Online Poker for Money(kinda long), Big_Slick, 2. May 2003 11:24 | ||
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| You proved that in the end, the best hands usually win.. bottom line. p.s. I forgive ya | ||
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| Re: Online Poker for Money(kinda long), Randall Edmunds, 2. May 2003 07:16 | ||
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| This site is GREAT! Thanks to everyone for the wonderful comments and suggestions. I do believe I will give it a try. Hope to see you at the tables. thanks again, Randy | ||
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| Re: Online Poker for Money(kinda long), TKarrde, 2. May 2003 07:41 | ||
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| Randall, I had the same concerns as you. But having such a hard time making it to a casino I gave in and tried it. Deposited $50 with Ultimate Bet. Been very happy there but have seen the occassional odd thing but nothing to scare me off. I ran it up to $120 and then cashed out $60 knowing that none of my money was no longer at risk. Regarding your post about duplicate cards playing multiple tables. I have seen the same thing. Almost to the point that I thought it just couldn't be real. Some will argue that may just be normal random cards. I am still a bit wary on it although I don't expect it to change the course of the game and I never bet what I think may come up because of what is on another table. | ||
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| Re: Online Poker for Money(kinda long), stdioh, 2. May 2003 07:53 | ||
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| Here's a simple answer for you. These places make a lot of money doing legitimate business. Is it possible that some of them steal too? Sure, but they have a reputation to look out for. Thus if they are going to steal then they will steal big. So if you're playing with a few hundred bucks, I wouldn't worry too much about it - you wouldn't be a target anyway. Lots of sites have good reputations - go somewhere like ultimatebet, partypoker or Planet Poker. I (and many people I know) play on UB and it has never been a problem. I play in the B&M with one of th hosts of PartyPoker and I trust her - she thinks security there is fine and dandy and that everything is most honest. And of course Planet is endorsed by Mike and Roy of this forum. | ||
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| Re: Online Poker for Money(kinda long), Wren, 2. May 2003 08:01 | ||
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| Didn't you say Laura plays at TruePoker? | ||
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| Re: Online Poker for Money(kinda long), stdioh, 2. May 2003 08:04 | ||
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| Oh! I think you're right. I was thinking Party Poker for some reason, but now that I think about it, it is True Poker. My bad. | ||
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