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Server Time: 12/2/2008 6:19:44 PM PACIFIC |
 Online Tells, jake-free, 26. Apr 2003 09:31 | ||
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| What information do they give away they: 1.use the button in advance? 2.chat when their turn is upcoming and they are still in the hand? 3.chat(say hmmmmmmmmm)? 4.actually bet in first 2 secs and other times take 5 secs or longer? 5.rebuy instantly when the tourney starts? 6.people who never rebuy? 7.players who go all-in preflop in No-Limit tournament early stages? 8.players who are first offering to chop(make a deal)/ 9.players who don't chat(don't say a word)? 10.players who berate others? please add online tells | ||
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| Re: Online Tells, flintsword, 26. Apr 2003 11:49 | ||
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| Here is my response to your list and I have added a few. Hope they are interesting. Anyone think I am wrong, PLEASE say so. I learn only by being corrected by better players. Thanks in advance! flintsword > Jake-free says: What information do they give away they: > 1.use the button in advance? That player is sure of his given his cards. Match card to this behavior and you have a read on his comfort zone for calling and raising. > 2.chat when their turn is upcoming and they are still in the hand? Chat is more an indication of personality. What they chat about and how they communicate may be a better indication of their outlook and how they will react to raises. Always test chatters, ... extroverted strong players exist. > 3.chat(say hmmmmmmmmm)? Either the cards are interesting or this player has a strong hand (I know that doesn't help much!) but usually this indicates a drawing hand (flush or straight) where the player does not have the nuts. > 4.actually bet in first 2 secs and other times take 5 secs or longer? Top pair or a piece of the flop. Preflop it doesn't indicate anything as far as I can tell. Time = though or distraction. Thought = pot odds calc or odds to draw. Distraction you will be able to identify pretty quickly over the short term. > 5.rebuy instantly when the tourney starts? This person is going to be aggressive. > 6.people who never rebuy? This player is going to be tighter. > 7.players who go all-in preflop in NL tournament in early stages? Accident waiting for a place to happen. Watch like a hawk. > 8.players who are first offering to chop(make a deal) Life is too short. Indicates time pressures which will influence the player's game. Say no and play for the brass ring. > 9.players who don't chat(don't say a word)? Nothing. Online is now VERY international and all chat MUST be in English. A silent player could be Holdem champion from Slovania or a really, serious, take-no-prisoners player. Cards talk so listen carefully to a player's cards ... :) > 10.players who berate others? <(((((><) that needs to boost his ego at the expense of others. Usually a good player trying to loosen play against himself by people with marginal hands. Tighten up against the guy, and if the cards allow - and only if the cards allow - take all his money. Buy yourself a beer next day not because the idiot got his just rewards, but rather because you successfully resisted the impulse to weaken your game faced with a big-mouthed Bass. Other tells: 11) The same player raises when you are in the BB. Does it feel like you are wearing a T shirt with a bullseye on it? You are probably targetted. Test this with a reraise or too to discourage the behavior. 12) One player raises whenever another single player is in the BB. That player has identified someone that will fold to a raise. Rearaise him with good cards since he is basing his raise on the player in the BB's behavior, not necessarily his good cards. 13) Chat vocabulary is a huge tell. Anyone that talks correctly about pot odds and quotes T.J. Cloutier has some inkling about the game. Careful here. | ||
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| Re: Online Tells, jake-free, 26. Apr 2003 12:13 | ||
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| hi flintsword, thanks for your comments they are very good and helpfull, can you please clarify #13 ? thanks, jake freedman | ||
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| Re: Online Tells use of poker vocabulary, flintsword, 26. Apr 2003 12:28 | ||
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| Glad you liked them, ... I am waiting (hopeful) that a really good player will add, rebutt, or modify some of them. >13) Chat vocabulary is a huge tell. >Anyone that talks correctly about pot odds and quotes T.J. Cloutier has some inkling about the game. Careful here. 13) Chat vocabulary Players that chat and use terms that are right out of Sklansky, or some of T.J Cloutier's books, are at least reading about poker. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, but one thing it does tell you: This player is reading and remembering, ... & probably improving. More importantly, talking about poker online may mean that the player has enough confidence in his play to talk poker (or not care? ... in which case you have a <(((((><). You may be playing against a confident, learning, knowledgable, improving fish. You may be playing against someone on a very strong poker-playing improvement curve. Unless you accord a little bit of repect based on this tell, it may cost you. Incidentally, those players often are the best people to get to know online, that don't mind sharing information and perhaps helping you become a better player. Many players belong to the "Don't Educate" school of thought. Education is a two-way communication, as this forum demonstrates. Back to the subject, the poker vocabluary online is a huge tell which should not go unnoticed. You should take note of it too. | ||
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| Re: Online Tells use of poker vocabulary, jake-free, 26. Apr 2003 15:50 | ||
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| THANKS MAYBE MIKE CARO WILL RESPOND ON ONLINE TELLS | ||
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| Re: Online Tells: Request for Mike, flintsword, 26. Apr 2003 17:21 | ||
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| I hope so, ... I put your request for Mike Caro in the title in case he cruises by today or tomorrow. He is always open to dropping his pearls of poker wisdom. (and not give away too much material for his next book ... lol). Always interesting. Just in case you have not heard his audio lectures, here is the link: http://www.pokerpages.com/interactive/caro-index.htm If you have any other interesting ideas, pass them on. flintsword | ||
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| Re: Online Tells: Request for Mike, jake-free, 27. Apr 2003 14:14 | ||
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| starting hands for 7 stud h/l 8 , i posted a list today in upf need comments | ||
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| Re: Online Tells use of poker vocabulary, gary ford, 26. Apr 2003 18:14 | ||
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| there is another aspect to online tells---screen name---some are meaning less but ones like butthead and redneck tend to be informative. The chat tells are huge--im not that really good player that your'e looking for but---no not butt---female players who also visit chat rooms use the language of chat i.e. lol, lmao and the poker version--nh,ty,yvw--these are the social players and in some cases frustrated housewives. This chit chat takes place in most of the free play games, but can slip over into the money games. Don't talk and dont show your hole cards--thats the province of social players and set up artists promoting future calls. Online tells are much more transparent than most people think, although my B&M friends wouldn't agree | ||
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| Re: Online Tells use of poker vocabulary, 4 POKER, 26. Apr 2003 18:35 | ||
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| on 26. Apr 2003 18:14 gary ford wrote: > there is another aspect to online tells---screen name---some are meaning less but ones like butthead > and redneck tend to be informative. The chat tells are huge--im not that really good player that > your'e looking for but---no not butt---female players who also visit chat rooms use the language of > chat > i.e. lol, lmao and the poker version--nh,ty,yvw--these are the social players and in some cases > frustrated housewives. This chit chat takes place in most of the free play games, but can slip over > into the money games. Don't talk and dont show your hole cards--thats the province of social players > and set up artists promoting future calls. Online tells are much more transparent than most people > think, although my B&M friends wouldn't agree Hi Gary, I'm not a female but I have a problem with your thinking. Do you really think the players that are saying "NH, and TY, AND LOL are strictly just women? I see that type of responses from everyone, not just women. Frustrated housewives?? What's that all about, really? And IF you really think that just because a player says NH, or LOL then they must just be a social player, you seriously should consider turning off the player chat on your computer... you're getting way too many mixed signals here. And don't be too quick to think that just because someone uses the name butthead or redneck that he or she is a good player or a bad player. I'm not even sure what type of player you think they would be, but you did mention that players that use screen names such as those can be very informative... how? What are you basing that on? I do agree that you can pick up tells while playing on-line, but I'm sorry, I just don't think the ones you mentioned were tells at all. Maybe you should enlighten me on the subject, if a player says NH,(nice hand), what type of player are they and what tell did you just pick up on? If a person uses the name redneck, what type of player will he be? ... Maybe this is why your B&M buddies are disagreeing with you; your explanations on the subject don't make much sense...at least to me they don't. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Online Tells use of poker vocabulary, gary ford, 26. Apr 2003 21:55 | ||
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| on 26. Apr 2003 18:35 4 POKER wrote: > on 26. Apr 2003 18:14 gary ford wrote: > > there is another aspect to online tells---screen name---some are meaning less but ones like butthead > > > and redneck tend to be informative. The chat tells are huge--im not that really good player that > > your'e looking for but---no not butt---female players who also visit chat rooms use the language of > > chat > > i.e. lol, lmao and the poker version--nh,ty,yvw--these are the social players and in some cases > > frustrated housewives. This chit chat takes place in most of the free play games, but can slip over > > into the money games. Don't talk and dont show your hole cards--thats the province of social players > > > and set up artists promoting future calls. Online tells are much more transparent than most people > > think, although my B&M friends wouldn't agree > > > Hi Gary, > I'm not a female but I have a problem with your thinking. > Do you really think the players that are saying "NH, and TY, AND LOL are strictly just women? I see that > type of responses from everyone, not just women. Frustrated housewives?? What's that all about, really? > And IF you really think that just because a player says NH, or LOL then they must just be a social > player, you seriously should consider turning off the player chat on your computer... you're getting way > too many mixed signals here. > And don't be too quick to think that just because someone uses the name butthead or redneck that he or > she is a good player or a bad player. I'm not even sure what type of player you think they would be, but > you did mention that players that use screen names such as those can be very informative... how? > What are you basing that on? > I do agree that you can pick up tells while playing on-line, but I'm sorry, I just don't think the ones > you mentioned were tells at all. > Maybe you should enlighten me on the subject, if a player says NH,(nice hand), what type of player are > they and what tell did you just pick up on? > If a person uses the name redneck, what type of player will he be? > ... Maybe this is why your B&M buddies are disagreeing with you; your explanations on the subject don't > make much sense...at least to me they don't. > > 4 POKER dear 4 poker-----I'm sorry if my comments offended you--thats all they were ---comments---i was surprised by your tone because most of your [posts are excellent and well -informed. You may be surprised to hear that I'm am older person and my comments generally make sense. Perhaps you can enlighten me on the science of online tells Gary Ford | ||
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| Re: Online Tells use of poker vocabulary, 4 POKER, 27. Apr 2003 02:40 | ||
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| On 26. Apr 2003 21:55 Gary ford wrote: > on 26. Apr 2003 18:35 4 POKER wrote: > > on 26. Apr 2003 18:14 Gary ford wrote: > > > there is another aspect to online tells---screen name---some are meaning less but ones like butthead > > > > > and redneck tend to be informative. The chat tells are huge--im not that really good player that > > > you're looking for but---no not butt---female players who also visit chat rooms use the language of > > > chat > > > i.e. lol, lmao and the poker version--nh,ty,yvw--these are the social players and in some cases > > > frustrated housewives. This chit chat takes place in most of the free play games, but can slip over > > > into the money games. Don't talk and don't show your hole cards--that's the province of social players > > > > > and set up artists promoting future calls. Online tells are much more transparent than most people > > > think, although my B&M friends wouldn't agree > > > > > > Hi Gary, > > I'm not a female but I have a problem with your thinking. > > Do you really think the players that are saying "NH, and TY, AND LOL are strictly just women? I see that > > type of responses from everyone, not just women. Frustrated housewives?? What's that all about, really? > > And IF you really think that just because a player says NH, or LOL then they must just be a social > > player, you seriously should consider turning off the player chat on your computer... You're getting way > > too many mixed signals here. > > And don't be too quick to think that just because someone uses the name butthead or redneck that he or > > she is a good player or a bad player. I'm not even sure what type of player you think they would be, but > > you did mention that players that use screen names such as those can be very informative... how? > > What are you basing that on? > > I do agree that you can pick up tells while playing on-line, but I'm sorry, I just don't think the ones > > you mentioned were tells at all. > > Maybe you should enlighten me on the subject, if a player says NH,(nice hand), what type of player are > > they and what tell did you just pick up on? > > If a person uses the name redneck, what type of player will he be? > > ... Maybe this is why your B&M buddies are disagreeing with you; your explanations on the subject don't > > make much sense...at least to me they don't. > > > > 4 POKER > > dear 4 poker-----I'm sorry if my comments offended you--thats all they were ---comments---i was surprised by > your tone because most of your [posts are excellent and well -informed. You may be surprised to hear that I'm > am older person and my comments generally make sense. Perhaps you can enlighten me on the science of online > tells > > Gary Ford Hey Gary, Thanks for the nice compliment. This was not however one of my posts. I was responding to something that you wrote. Yes they were just comments but I felt that they were not based on truth. It bothered me to hear some of your opinions on this subject and that is why my tone was harsh. I understand that sometimes we want to put our feelings across in a certain way and something just happens when we start typing and we just get carried away with ourselves...At least I do!!! However, I can not be the one to enlighten you on the science of on-line poker chat tells for I never have my chat on to begin with! (I think that was just a little sarcasm in your voice but that is ok, I can dish it out therefore I can take it as well!) Just for the record, I'm an older person myself, not old, just older. For what it's worth.... 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Online Tells use of poker vocabulary, Jared Drigant, 28. Apr 2003 17:41 | ||
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| I am just curious about one thing with respect to the online tells as a whole. Isometimes believe I am over someone to start with, but as the hand developes I find that someone without a good start can be catching up with many different combinations of cards. How often should my origional read take my before I abandon the hand no matter what I put my opponent on Jared | ||
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| Re: Online Tells: chat is negative?, flintsword, 26. Apr 2003 18:49 | ||
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| Well, I have seen some pretty "telling" screen names linked to some pretty strong players. There was a Partypoker player with the name "cannonfodder" who was anything but, IMO. There are so many player-related variables and table image considerations that affect playing results that perhaps being quiet at the table IS the best policy. There are enough strong players out there that advocate (and practice) some sort of communication that if it is a factor, my guess is that it can't be that serious a mistake. A guess. Any opinions out there? Is it better for your poker to shut up at the table or can you communicate? I am a social animal and fundamentally friendly, but I am open to constructive advice. I say hi at the table (especially to the player on my left) and engage in a certain minimalist chitchat with strangers. | ||
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| Re: Online Tells: chat is negative?, 4 POKER, 26. Apr 2003 19:32 | ||
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| If your talking about on-line chat you should do whatever works in your favor. I personally say nothing when I'm playing on-line. Occasionaly I will put on the chat just to listen to what somebody might be saying. Example, if someone just put a bad beat on another player, I will take my screen off the "totally silent" mode and quickly change it to "dealer normal" just to see if I can hear a response from that player. When I first started to play on-line, I would always listen to all the chat and sometimes make comments myself. But then I realized that most of the comments that were made were either very negative or that old standby, nice hand. I really don't need to hear someone telling me or anybody else for that matter that I had a "nice hand". MOST of the comments that you're going to see are going to be negative-" how could you call with that"?, 'You're a moron", "nice river buddy", the list goes on and on; and for me personally, I just assume to not listen to any of it. I sit there quietly, don't respond to anyone, don't make any comments, negative or positive and I just play my game. I can leave all that chit-chat trash talk for everyone else. And if someone does say something to me just to try and throw me off my game, well he's out of luck, it can't happen, I'm not listening! These players that play on-line can be real brutal sometimes and I'm not sure if there wouldn't come a time where one of them actually did say something bad about my play that I wouldn't be bothered by it- I may very well get bothered by such a negative and "in your face" comment that it COULD possibly throw me off my game. Since I've been playing this way, with my "totally silent" option, I have never taken anything or anyone personal- noone can say anything to me to try and throw me off my game, you know why?... 'cause I'm not listening. I find that in doing such, I'm more focused on the poker and the main reason for why I am there $$, opposed to maybe getting distracted by all the chat. I can tell if a person is a good player or not just by playing with them, period. I don't need to listen to the chat to help me figure that out. Now, if you're talking about "live poker rooms", I usually talk as much as possible to my friends BEFORE I sit down in the game, and then for the most part I am relatively quiet throughout my session. I love to listen to what everyone else is saying, it can be very helpful, and with my mouth shut and my ears open I will be able to hold on to ALL of the information, not just bits and pieces of it. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Online Tells: chat is negative?, shorn, 28. Apr 2003 06:54 | ||
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| 4-POKER: I think you may be costing your self some useful information by sitting silently at on-line. Just as you like to "listen to what everyone else is saying" at the B&M, you can pick up some good info. on a player's understanding by watching the chat. Anyway, it has helped me. One comment back to the original thread on time it takes to bet online. This is very important and I found it to potentially be a leak in my game online (betting too fast, thinking too long). So, now I act on the count of 5 NO MATTER WHAT I am going to do. Even if I hold 92o UTG preflop, I wait for the count of 5 before hitting the Fold button. This has helped me keep my big hands disguised a bit better. | ||
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| Re: Online Tells: chat is negative?, 4 POKER, 30. Apr 2003 03:30 | ||
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| on 28. Apr 2003 06:54 shorn wrote: > 4-POKER: > > I think you may be costing your self some useful information by sitting silently at on-line. Just as you like to > "listen to what everyone else is saying" at the B&M, you can pick up some good info. on a player's understanding by > watching the chat. Anyway, it has helped me. > > One comment back to the original thread on time it takes to bet online. This is very important and I found it to > potentially be a leak in my game online (betting too fast, thinking too long). So, now I act on the count of 5 NO > MATTER WHAT I am going to do. Even if I hold 92o UTG preflop, I wait for the count of 5 before hitting the Fold > button. This has helped me keep my big hands disguised a bit better. Hey Shorn, I missed this response for some reason. Yeah, I think you may have a good point there. Chatting can be very useful, it just bugs the crap out of me to listen to these numnuts all the time. But nonetheless, I probably should have it turned on. As far as the delayed betting, I pick up a lot of signals to the strength of someone's hand just by there betting, whether it be delayed or quick. That's pretty odd that you can pick up on that from playing on-line but you honestly can.BUT, you have to be careful that the delayed betting is not because of a bad connection that somebody might be experiencing, so even though I find it useful, I don't necessarily put full merit in someone's reactions on how long it may take them to bet there hand. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Online Tells: chat is negative?, shorn, 30. Apr 2003 05:37 | ||
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| 4P- That's true about the time thing. I am just saying for me to make sure I don't give anything away, I am acting after a count of five for anything (fold, call, raise, re-raise, cap it, whatever). I don't want to give any tells due to this. Ironically, the biggest tell of all (that i have seen) on any street on-line is the super-quick check where someone has clicked the box...might as well paste "I HVE NOTHING AND CAN BE BLUFFED OUT" on their forehead. | ||
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| Re: Online Tells: chat is negative?, jake-free, 27. Apr 2003 14:39 | ||
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| I'd joke alot make them happy, so when I'll take their money they wdn't be mad at me | ||
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