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Server Time: 10/15/2008 3:48:51 PM PACIFIC |
 AA Cracked again--How did I do?, spartan51, 25. Apr 2003 11:44 | ||
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| Playing 1/2 online last nite when the following hand occured. I am dealt AA (suits unimportant) in middle position. UTG bets out, UTG +1 calls, I raise, UTG reraises, UTG + 1 calls , I cap it and both players call. Flop comes A K J rainbow. UTG bets out and betting gets capped again with all 3 playing. Turn comes rag (7 i think) Betting gets capped again with all 3 playing. River comes Q. UTG bets, UTG + 1 raises, I call, UTG reraises, UTG + 1 caps it and I call. UTG shows TT for straight, UTG + 1 shows T 7o for straight and they split the pot. I was putting them on hands like AK, KJs, KK, or JJ and felt I was going to take the pot down. Should have I laid this hand down on the river? Thanks for your comments in advance. | ||
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| Re: AA Cracked again--How did I do?, shorn, 25. Apr 2003 12:31 | ||
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| I would have slowed down when the turn brought a rag and it was capped again. The flop has three cards in the playing zone and one of them (at this level) could easily be playing QTs or QTo for the straight. When the river comes, they only need one card to beat you, so if there is heavy action you MUST fold here. If it was heads up, OK then maybe you call, but against more than 1 player, they were basically divvying up your calls at the end. Stick with it. AA is a tough hand to lay down, but this is a good example of when you should do it: 1 card beats you in a multi-way pot with lots of action. | ||
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| Re: AA Cracked again--How did I do?, Paul Stine, 25. Apr 2003 12:41 | ||
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| on 25. Apr 2003 11:44 spartan51 wrote: > Playing 1/2 online last nite when the following hand occured. I am dealt AA > (suits unimportant) in middle position. UTG bets out, > UTG +1 calls, I raise, UTG reraises, UTG + 1 calls , I cap it and both players > call. > > Flop comes A K J rainbow. > > UTG bets out and betting gets capped again with all 3 playing. > > Turn comes rag (7 i think) > > Betting gets capped again with all 3 playing. > > River comes Q. > > UTG bets, UTG + 1 raises, I call, UTG reraises, UTG + 1 caps it and I call. > > UTG shows TT for straight, UTG + 1 shows T 7o for straight and they split the > pot. > > I was putting them on hands like AK, KJs, KK, or JJ and felt I was going to > take the pot down. > > Should have I laid this hand down on the river? > > Thanks for your comments in advance. Given the magnitude of the action on the flop, I'm surprised you weren't beaten then. Even if your opponents are the dumbest woodentops in the world, it doesn't mean that they won't make a hand every once in a while. I would have slowed down after the flop given all the action and the coordinated board. I don't think I would have paid off any bets after seeing the river card. Aces get cracked, sets of all sizes get cracked. It is one of the set of all possible outcomes. Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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| Re: AA Cracked again--How did I do?, spartan51, 25. Apr 2003 13:09 | ||
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| No doubt I should have laid it down after UTG +1 came alive on the river and raised and then there were 2 big bets to me. I was the one who capped the betting on the flop and turn feeling that I was way ahead, which I was. I was feeling they were either on a lower flopped set or big 2 pair, with UTG +1 possibly drawing to the straight. (which he was) In these situations, when I feel that I am leading and still have as many as 10 outs to the nut full house or quads, I should slow down? When UTG bets out on flop or turn, I should only call? This does not seem like a correct play to me. Please advise, as these are probably the areas where I am decreasing my win rate significantly. | ||
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| Re: AA Cracked again--How did I do?, Andrew Wells, 25. Apr 2003 13:53 | ||
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| When they like the flop enough to play for a cap, it's probable you have fewer outs than 10 to improve. I agree with both shorn and Paul to slow down on the turn as it has become much more likely there's a QT out there. You may very well still get multiple bets on the river if the board pairs. The queen on the river looks just as bad to someone who has or made two pairs, yet it is bet and raised to you. A miracle set over set over set is about all that is left when it's raised on the river. Make the laydown. | ||
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| Re: AA Cracked again--How did I do?, ice, 25. Apr 2003 14:30 | ||
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| esp. when the river came queen... when its one card to a strait with that much action, on the river, at LEAST save yourself those last few bets... but i agree, you should have laid down after the flop. its hard, esp. when you catch another ace to make a set. aces in the hole arn't invincible, like a lot of people like to think, esp. if a flop comes like that. if the flop would have come AT7 or even KT7, that would be a much safer flop to play those aces... i expect to get my aces beat 50% of the time, if i dont improve by the river. as long as you get 3-5 way action every time though, you'll come out a winner. *********** ¡¢£ßøx | ||
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| Re: AA Cracked again--How did I do?, Piers Majestyk, 25. Apr 2003 16:33 | ||
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| I would have played the flop and turn the same way you did. The guy that reraised before the flop doesn't have Q10 and I'm not putting the other one on that hand either. Did he raise the turn after the UTG bet out. If he did this I might put him on Q10 but if he just called the turn bet before you raised then you can bet I am going ot cap when it comes back around to me on the turn. In my opinion if you slow down on the flop or turn with this hand you are costing yourself money, if they got Q10 then they're just going to have to take some more of my money. Now your river play was pretty bad. When UTG +1 raises you should muck your hand to the 2 bets, he ain't bluffing. These situations go a great deal towards determining whether you will be a winning player long term or not . You have to push the hands when you are very likely ahead but then be able to muck your monsters when they become also rans. As Mr. Caro says the money you save when you know you are beat spends just as nicely as money won or something pretty close to that:) Good luck. | ||
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| Re: AA Cracked again--How did I do?, flintsword, 26. Apr 2003 12:51 | ||
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| The coordinated flop screams: "Danger, someone may have QT!" Your raise shouts out, "I fear no KK and JJ." The reraise by the player with T7 says, "I believe in a Queen" (= four outs) and he should have folded. Looks chancey to me. The betting by the player with TT says, "I believe in a Queen and I think you are bluffing." Both these guys "appear" to me to be dogs to get a queen which leads me to my question to you: "What was your table image that would have led BOTH these guys to dismiss you possible AA holding?" Did you get caught bluffing earlier? Do you raise a lot of marginal hands in similar circumstances? Please understand I am not slagging your play here. I am just trying to discover the reason TWO players dismissed YOUR very clear announcement of AA, KK, JJ, AK, & AJ. They may have felt that holding a 10, that QT was an unlikely holding, but it seems obvious they didn't believe you. Think about it but I feel I am on the right track here because at least one of these guys should have laid down his hand. Now that I think about it, possibly the pot had grown large enough that they had to see it through? Tough beat. | ||
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| Re: AA Cracked again--How did I do?, 4 POKER, 26. Apr 2003 18:01 | ||
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| Yes, you definitely need to fold your hand now. There was a bet and a raise on the river and with a board of A K J Q, SOMEONE has the straight. Yes this was a tough beat for you but try to look at in this way... if you could be dealt the two Aces again, have the same exact flop, have two players in the hand with you both who are drawing to only 4 outs combined, would you take the offer? I would, everyday of the week! You just happened to get unlucky, no big deal, it's just nice to know that there are players who are willing to put in so many bets with relatively no hand.... POKER'S GREAT, IT REALLY IS. Hang in there. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: AA Cracked again--How did I do?, Mojo702, 27. Apr 2003 17:47 | ||
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| Lee Jones of "Winning Low Limit Hold 'em" says that if you flop a set, get beaten and you didn't lose alot of chips, that you didn't play it right. That may be true in most cases, but with what was on the board at the river, I would have folded given the action. | ||
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| Re: AA Cracked again--How did I do?, spartan51, 28. Apr 2003 08:08 | ||
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| Thanks to all who responded. It confirmed two things in my mind. My flop and turn play was OK and my river play was terrible. I could not possibly put UTG on QT because of his pre-flop reraise of me. UTG + 1 did not raise until the river and this is why I wasn't putting him on QT as well. As far as my table image goes, this was online poker where I know there are many players out there who will call every pre-flop raise and then thinks an inside straight draw is a great hand. The table was not overly agressive until this hand. I was playing my usual tight agressive (sometimes slipping to tight passive) game and was up on the game about 10 big bets when this hand occurred. Since I did lose a lot of money on this flopped set, at least Lee Jones would be proud of me. :) | ||
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| Re: AA Cracked again--How did I do?, stdioh, 28. Apr 2003 10:38 | ||
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| You were holding the nuts until the river and the pot was enormous. It's really impossible to lay that down, especially with all the betting that went on. That said, you're beat by any ten. Chances are pretty good that somebody was on a dirty hand like AT and figured they had top pair with good kicker and a gutshot and didn't realize what rough shape they were really in. Likewise you've got your dip with his TT and your dip with his T7. This is just a situation where you know you're beat and it hurts, but is it worth throwing away *another* 4 big bets? When there is a bet and a raise on the river with a board like that, then you can be fairly sure that you are beat. Lets say that you make the call, but now there's a reraise and a cap. Why do you call now? Both players are representing the nuts - chances that one has it is pretty gigantic. So what if you have the second best hand? You don't get *any* of the money. So I'd say that it's ok to flat call 2 on the river there. Perhaps the raiser was trying to scare you off and the bettor had a lower set. Flat calling again is silly though as the bettor has affirmed his strength as has the raiser. Save those 2 big bets and if you really don't want them, you can always send them to me. | ||
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