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Server Time: 8/28/2008 8:16:15 PM PACIFIC |
 No limit hand, Schuster, 25. Apr 2003 01:12 | ||
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| I'm playing in a $5+1 single table tournament tonight at party poker. There are 6 players left, and I'm 4th in chips with 1200. The others have, roughly, 300, 600, 1500, 2000, and 2400. The blinds are 50 and 100. I'm dealt KJ one of the button and the blinds are set to go up by the time they get back to me. There is one limper before me (who would limp on just about any random hand) and I make it 300 to go. I think I was the tightest player for seeing the flop at the table, but wasn't afraid to toss some chips in when I had a hand. The button (who seemed to be a reasonable player) calls, the blinds and the limper both fold and we're heads up. The flop is K J 3 rainbow. Pretty good for me! The pot is 850 at this point, and I've got about 900 left. I bet 250 into it and the button calls. The turn is an ace. I check, the button bets 300, and I move all in. He flips over A J and I bust out. I'm very new to tournaments and no limit in general so I'm almost certain that I did something wrong somewhere. I've been showing a small profit over the tournaments I've played, but the competition at the lowest buy in isn't exactly fierce. Thanks in advance. | ||
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| Re: No limit hand, Andrew Wells, 25. Apr 2003 01:59 | ||
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| Not my choice of hand to try to isolate a weak player with, but I understand what you were trying to do preflop. Your mistake was underbetting the flop. You are giving suckout odds to someone with position on you. As you say, there is 850 in the pot on the flop. That covers several blinds even at the next level. You bet small hoping you would get called, but there's already too much in the pot to not want to grab it right there. Push all-in on the flop with two pair because the king and jack on the board could be useful to a cold caller and you're unlikely to be against a set. Even though the button caught up immediately on the turn and toasted you, what you don't want is the pot to grow to more than three times the amount of the rest of your stack. You see if that happens and he improved to pick up a draw (regardless of whether he had a pair on the flop), your remaining chips are not enough to have him make a mistake going all-in on the turn. Someone with KQ that catches a ten on the turn will have odds to draw out. Someone with AJs that catches a four flush on the turn will also be justified in calling your all-in on the turn as well. Neither you nor your opponent have large enough stacks relative to the pot for you to be trapping with top two, and that assumes he was chip leader. | ||
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| Re: No limit hand, 4 POKER, 25. Apr 2003 02:07 | ||
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| Hi, With the blinds being that high, I don't think I would have bet that large of an amount with KJ. With several players having a low chip count, I think I would have let someone else take a stand here and hope that one of them got knocked out. You also stated that the blinds were going to increase, which also means that the players with low chips are even more vulnerable. You must keep in mind that at this stage of the tournament with half the players having small stacks, they will only call a big raise with a hand that is better then your KJ. 300 was too much to risk because you had too many players behind you who could easily have come over the top and cripple your chances of placing in the event. Having said that... We need to know how much did the button have in chips. It sounds like he was one of the chip leaders considering he had enough to cover your bet. Once you committed yourself with that substantial raise preflop, I think you should have pushed All In on the flop. Try and take the pot right there. It would have yielded you an additional $600 plus the blinds. You flopped just about the best thing you could have hoped for, top two with a small card. You should have been thinking at this very moment, "what kind of holding did the button call my raise with"? Probably high cards, and more then likely one of them being an Ace. If he was holding an Ace, and he was, then there was also a good chance that he flopped a pair as well. He could have been holding a variety of high cards like AK, AQ, AJ, A-10 SUITED. All of which can hurt you with two cards yet to come. Your small bet on the flop was too much of a bargain and when the turn brought an Ace, you were more then eager to check and then call his bet all in. I would have definitely thought that I was no longer the best here and would not have committed the rest of my stack. You played the hand strong preflop, you should have played it even stronger on the flop. Either that or check and see what the turn card brings- then decide again. But my choice would have been to push all in. If you chose to take any kind of stab at this flop, your bet should be one to drive him out, not one that keeps him tagging along. And what if he was holding a medium pocket pair? Your small bet on the flop could have easily invited him in to take a turn card. That would be awful if he hit a set on the turn, don't you think? The flop was good for you, but remember, you didn't flop top set... Put the pressure on now or get out on the turn. If you played the flop a lot stronger, he may not have even seen the turn card...that's what I think. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: No limit hand, chasepoker, 25. Apr 2003 05:29 | ||
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| With one limper i would chuck the KJ away in NL it pretty much sucks, that said if you do play it and get that flop stick it all in with the KJ as the flop gives straight draws to loads of hands he might play for a small bet given the opportunity to bust you out if he hits ( AQ,AT,QT,Q9 even T9 ) also he might have AK / AJ / etc .... ( which he did ). Cards that can hurt you on the turn A,Q,T,9 as they are all scare cards to you. Tourny NL in my opinion is all about scooping small pots( by betting big) with hands like KJ,AQ etc save the big pots for your sutied connectors etc when you are hitting hands that other peoples AK , KJ,AQ are paying YOU out on. But i am only new to all this though.. | ||
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| Re: No limit hand, stdioh, 28. Apr 2003 10:11 | ||
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| First off, KJ just isn't that great a hand. Nonetheless, you preflop play was defencible. Now when you flop top two, that's great, but you are also vulnerable. What if your opponent holds a straight draw? You can be fairly reasonable that you have the best hand at the moment, but there are a lot of ways that you can be drawn out on. You don't want to sit around and let somebody improve. It is time here to make a large bet into the pot and try to take it now. If you get somebody coming along with a weaker made hand (like AK for example) then great. If you do get somebody in with a made hand then you probably have a couple of redraws, but basically you're dead. This is time to bet pot. Had you done that, AJ would have been gone and you would have your 850, which is just fine. In a NL tourney I'd rather not show down any hands at all if I can get away with it. | ||
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