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Server Time: 2/10/2012 8:50:09 PM PACIFIC |
 WPT #6- San Fran's Lucky Chances tournament- random thoughts, Easy E, 23. Apr 2003 21:17 | ||
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| Forget the player's name (Paul?), but he folds TT and AQ to raises from the Mad Magician (MM), then talks in his exit interview and says something about taking a lot of chances??? Phil H- what the HELL was that 32off button steal raise, of such a large amount, all about? Was he tilting THAT much? THIS is one of the best tournament poker players? No WONDER all of the ring players say that tournament pros are fresh meat in the side games....... Seemed like Phil caught Phil G's ego disease- "I'm gonna outplay you with crap, rookie!" (...okay, maybe i'm not). Anyone notice how Mike and Vince were downgrading Phil, talking about how emotional he gets after people go over the top of him, as if he has an....ego...... problem? (never mind) Shaina, you got a lot more pieces. Nothing thrilling, but pretty professional, it seemed. But girlfriend, that multi-colored sweater HAS to go! It may have been figure-flattering, but that design and those sleeves??? WAY too Eighties!!! Burn that thing right away! Vince going all in with 98off in the cutoff, after getting that beat the previous hand..... another tilter? I didn't note the blinds compared to his stack, but I think I would have waited for a high card or something before going all-in there, especially with the stacks sitting behind him. Also, was anyone else disappointed in Vince's professionalism when he slinked off without talking to anyone at the table? Maybe it's just me, but I'm starting to get bored with the show as a concept. Even though the play is somewhat different, and I of course enjoy the poker play, I'm starting to get an "it's the same ole same old" feeling about the show each week. Maybe the same set every week WASN'T such a great idea? Someone (Phil?) went all in preflop with KJoff. Woudn't it make more sense to make a smaller raise, then see the flop, with the big stacks behind you? I think it WAS Phil, because he then opened his yap and starting begging for a call. Seems pretty transparent watching (but I know his cards and such)- how does that sort of thing seem live? Mike Caro could comment, since he supposedly is the king of such comments.... Random silly Vince van Patten quote- "Phil wants to win so bad (ED NOTE: Grammar here, VvP) he can taste it" Well, THERE'S a shocking comment! C'mon Vince, we're gonna vote you off as the Weakest Link if you keep it up! I kind of liked the Lucky Chances/history segment. Was too short though- maybe more extensive segments down the road, to help with the 2 hour shows? Speaking of side segments, there seemed to be a lot more of them this episode (not sure about length of each possibly being shorter). Was that because there were less "televisable" hands to choose from in the editing room? I was ready to KILL Mike Sexton, or whatever idiot was responsible for the "Dead Money" pop-up definition!!! Yeah, let's get poker out there in a big way and then SCARE OFF the new customers! Mike, I KNOW you know better than this! I thought Paul made a good read of MM's smaller raise preflop, allowing him to bluff MM out with his 43c. VINCE, take a note here- Paul didn't have a tell on MM (i don't think), I think he just interpreted his betting a actions correctly! And Chris Bigler sure seemed to have some read or idea of Paul's play, the way he went after him with raises and all-ins during some of the later play.... If I heard correctly, VvP said something about the players playing for 2 days. Did the final 6 players play two whole days? The amount of commercials is starting to get out of hand. It's approaching American Idol levels (40 minutes of commercials, 20 minutes of show). I'm going to have to start taping the show and using my VCR to save myself an hour's worth of time! Stray thought- with the winners taking cash for their prizes, and with the tradition of dumping the money on the table for the finales in various tournaments, has anyone ever been mugged coming out of a tourney? Another hand comment- Chris Bigler's checkraise of Paul with 63off on a flop of 996. That was a good anticipation of Paul's betting tendencies. Maybe that, along with other middle hands, is what seemed to give Chirs a false sense of overconfidence Random MS commentary- said Chris (I think) was "really feeling his Wheaties" ??? I hope that was a paid plug, Mike, because it struck me as a weird comment! Is that a signature comment of yours? Another thing, Mike- I was kind of turned off by your commercial plugging Party Poker.com. I understand it, but I wonder if that will give you and the show the wrong image (for most of the public), especially given the current Internet environment... which seques me into: Did Bush sign that STUPID law? Guess I can be an outlaw now.... do they really think it will accomplish anything, except make it go more underground than it already is? Suggestion- edit the show differently? When there is 17 minutes left before 11 and there are only two people, I know I can skip 15 minutes worth of show..... NOT something we want non-players to do, maybe? Of course, I have no good suggestion on HOW to do something different here.. maybe have the winner at 10;50, then do a longer segment on some captivating poker topic, or history piece, or something? Paul D's AKs reraise of Chris B's 54: anyone else think that, given Chris' attacking aggressive moves, Paul should have raised a smaller amount, or preferably just called, then go after him on the flop? Or is that too risky heads-up for the final spots? Also, Paul's calling of Chris' bet with 84off on a flop of 873: wasn't that a little weak? Don't you get yourself in trouble here, just calling? If Chris had followed through when the K turned, would Paul have been out of there? After checking the King, Chris had no chance on the river IMO. I think the graphic on the final hand showed Chris as a slight dog when 2 diamonds fell but with the King overcard (to Paul's hand). Does the four-flush gain THAT much equity, even when being dominated by a higher unmatched card? | ||
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| Re: WPT #6- San Fran's Lucky Chances tournament- random thoughts, Nathaniel Brous, 23. Apr 2003 23:20 | ||
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| Wow...what can I add to that? Three things come to mind. One. Editing. If the cards are shown as Qx, don't tell us that Darden folded an Ace. Two. (An important one to me) I would like to see a second figure under the Win $(fill in the amount) with Profit $(fill in the amount). Yes they did win the money in the pot, but it is misleading to the general public who may not realize someone bet a whole bunch and only picked up the blinds. Three. I liked this show more than the others. I think it was the style of play. Past shows made tournament poker seem like it was always preflop all in crapshoots. There were more laydowns and give and take in this episode. I would like an effort to be made to see more of these (if they exist) to be shown in future episodes. I truly hope that the WPT continues to improve and one day be considered one of the greatest things that helped that game/sport of poker. - Nathaniel Brous | ||
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| Re: WPT #6- San Fran's Lucky Chances tournament- random thoughts, Easy E, 24. Apr 2003 04:44 | ||
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| on 23. Apr 2003 23:20 Nathaniel Brous wrote: > Wow...what can I add to that? Three things come to mind. Guess I need a life, eh Nat? > > Two. (An important one to me) I would like to see a second figure under the Win > $(fill in the amount) with Profit $(fill in the amount). Yes they did win the money > in the pot, but it is misleading to the general public who may not realize someone > bet a whole bunch and only picked up the blinds. Good idea > > Three. I liked this show more than the others. I think it was the style of play. > Past shows made tournament poker seem like it was always preflop all in crapshoots. > There were more laydowns and give and take in this episode. I would like an effort > to be made to see more of these (if they exist) to be shown in future episodes. I agree- I DID like the show, but it became to easy to run a "oh, someone's playing again, looks the same, I'll skip for a while" scenario. I wondered if non-players might get bored with the series if I was feeling it... > > I truly hope that the WPT continues to improve and one day be considered one of the > greatest things that helped that game/sport of poker. - Nathaniel Brous Amen | ||
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| Re: WPT #6- San Fran's Lucky Chances tournament- random thoughts, gary ford, 24. Apr 2003 19:59 | ||
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| responding to other posts 1. non-players--this is the key to success--novice and very casual players shoule be encuraged by the show---so far weve had a player from finland with 3 months experience, a 72 y/o amatuer , a 78 y'r old amatuerand antonio who stated that 2 years ago he was playing 2/4. 2. personalities--so far we have the mad magician,"cry baby " hellmuth a matt damon look-alike, a swiss businessman , a nightclub owner to go along with a cast of colorful professionals. Capitalizing on this will help overcome the perception that professional poker is a good old boys club 3, production--a hollywood personality is a necessity--whether vince is it is a decision for the producers. Whoever it is, their commentary needs to be error-free. and yes shana is cool 4. Commercials are the lifeblood of the show, but their placement relative to the competition could be improved. The ad by Party Poker was well done and indicates that someone in the poker community is on their toes. Every casino with a sizable poker room should be running ads on this show. This remains the best thing for poker in a long ,long time. EVERYBODY needs to get behind it. | ||
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| Re: WPT #6- San Fran's Lucky Chances tournament- random thoughts, JasonHoldEm, 24. Apr 2003 07:17 | ||
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| I have a couple things to add...first, STOP breaking for commericals in the middle of a hand. I know they're trying to build the suspense factor, but I really think it has the opposite effect. When they come back (after 2-3 mins of commercials) most people will have forgotten what was happening (cards, etc) and so you end up showing the end of a hand (that should be exciting) to a "disintristed" auidence. Second, I liked the additional Shania segments. I've been wanting to see more info on the casino's they were playing in, I thought some of it was a little cheesy (that whole graveyard thing with the dead money, dead hand, drawing dead thing), but for the most part I cautiously say good job. Third, I'm beginning to think I can beat Phil Helmuth (ok, that's a stretch), I've seen some of his footage from "back in the day" and when he's on his game he is certainly a monster at the table. Recently it seems he's been playing like someone who's washed up / burned out. Take a break Phil and get your focus back, I think it would be good for you and good for poker. Either that, or go back to throwing your tantrums at the table...anything except 32o....WTF was that? Lastly, did anyone catch Phil's parting comment to the magician guy (name forgotten, sorry). "Show some class and shake my hand, stop doing the wave." The way the kid reacted (body action-wise) seems like he almost felt bad for "insulting" Phil...I wonder if this threw off his game (causing him to finish 3rd), or if the kid's luck / experience just ran out. later, jHE | ||
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| Re: WPT #6- San Fran's Lucky Chances tournament- random thoughts, Easy E, 24. Apr 2003 07:31 | ||
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| on 24. Apr 2003 07:17 JasonHoldEm wrote: > I have a couple things to add...first, STOP breaking for commericals in the middle of > a hand. Good point > > Third, I'm beginning to think I can beat Phil Helmuth (ok, that's a stretch).... Either that, or go back to throwing your > tantrums at the table...anything except 32o....WTF was that? I might have to get onto UB and challange him to some heads-up play... > > Lastly, did anyone catch Phil's parting comment to the magician guy (name forgotten, > sorry). "Show some class and shake my hand, stop doing the wave." I was WONDERING what he said- thanks! | ||
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| Re: WPT #6- San Fran's Lucky Chances tournament- random thoughts, shorn, 24. Apr 2003 07:34 | ||
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| I did catch Phil's comment to the guy which I thought was uncalled for and sour grapes. I guess his clapping when he eliminated the other guy with his KTo was professional. However, he had to have playted somewhat well to get to the final six in 3rd chip position. I just think his real problem is the attitude that "he didn't see any of the other five winning this one". What an arrogant statement! The more I see of him, the more I dislike him regardless of whether or not he is a good player. He also goes on tilt WAY too much (the 32 being the example). I actually think MM had a perfect read on him all game long... | ||
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| Re: WPT #6- San Fran's Lucky Chances tournament- random thoughts, Mojo702, 26. Apr 2003 11:21 | ||
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| on 24. Apr 2003 07:34 shorn wrote: > I did catch Phil's comment to the guy which I thought was uncalled for and sour grapes. I > guess his clapping when he eliminated the other guy with his KTo was professional. > > However, he had to have playted somewhat well to get to the final six in 3rd chip > position. I just think his real problem is the attitude that "he didn't see any of the > other five winning this one". What an arrogant statement! The more I see of him, the > more I dislike him regardless of whether or not he is a good player. He also goes on tilt > WAY too much (the 32 being the example). I actually think MM had a perfect read on him > all game long... I think Phil's ego, (and head) are wayyy to big. Hell, he's in there with amatuers, right? Geez! He won the WSOP in '89...14 YEARS AGO!! What's he done since? Phil needs to come back down to Earth...*uckin' crybaby. | ||
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| Re: WPT #6- San Fran's Lucky Chances tournament- random thoughts, Nathaniel Brous, 26. Apr 2003 11:41 | ||
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| on 26. Apr 2003 11:21 Mojo702 wrote: > Geez! He won the WSOP in '89...14 YEARS AGO!! What's he done since? Phil needs to come back down to Earth...*uckin' crybaby. Well... he has won six MORE, WSOP Bracelets in holdem (I think they were all nolimit). So he is likely one of, if not the best NLHE player in the world. That said, excellence in a sport does not give anyone an excuse to behave poorly. - Nathaniel Brous | ||
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| Re: WPT #6- San Fran's Lucky Chances tournament- random thoughts, ice, 24. Apr 2003 17:56 | ||
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| jHE, i agree... the breaks in the middle of the hands are getting rediculous. i mean, its one thing to put a break before the flop... but there was a commercial break before the river on one hand, it was rediculous. i don't know about you guys, but i AM recording the episodes.... not only can i rewind the Shana segments (yeah, im a sucker, she's fine) but i can fastforward the commercials, i watched the whole ep. today in an hour 15 or something like that. about Phil H comment to the Mad Magician (antonio i think his name was)... was that really it? i couldn't quite hear, i actually rewound that part a couple of times to see if i could catch it. that sounds right, but i wasn't sure if he was saying "show some class..." or "showed some class..." then i thought he said something about a hand they played.... couldn't tell. yeah, its weird, many of the plays by phil look transparent when im watching them, of course thats easy to say when i can see his cards. but everyones been watching him play on tv, they all know he'll bluff at it and try to run you over. and everyone knows he tilts when you go over the top on him.... i think he is a big baby at the table, but he is still an amazing player. i may not like him as a person, but i more than respect his skills as a player. i think its easy to critize him from this side of the TV screen... *********** ¡¢£ßøx | ||
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| Re: WPT #6- San Fran's Lucky Chances tournament- random thoughts, mkpoker, 24. Apr 2003 18:23 | ||
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| What's more, Phil was just plain rude. I know it's a tough game, but there's no call to insult the guy who just beat you with that unnecessary "show some class" comments. Frankly, I thought the same thing at the WSOP last year with that whole head shaving escapade. I mean, he didn't even make the final table, yet he's working so hard to take the spotlight away from the winner! My advice to Phil, show some class yourself and stop being such a showboat! | ||
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| Re: WPT #6- San Fran's Lucky Chances tournament- random thoughts, Tommy waggoner, 25. Apr 2003 00:42 | ||
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| I couldn't make much sense of the 23o play either, especially the way Antonio kept playing back at him. I guess you have to get into the mind of Phil. | ||
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| Re: WPT #6- San Fran's Lucky Chances tournament- random thoughts, shorn, 25. Apr 2003 05:21 | ||
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| No thanks. I am doing fine in "reality" right here. | ||
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