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Server Time: 12/2/2008 7:00:27 PM PACIFIC |
 add ante to limit holdem, jake-free, 22. Apr 2003 13:47 | ||
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| would it loosen up the game? will they still play no-foldem? | ||
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| Re: add ante to limit holdem, Paul Stine, 22. Apr 2003 13:56 | ||
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| on 22. Apr 2003 13:47 jake-free wrote: > would it loosen up the game? > will they still play no-foldem? Adding an ante puts more money into the pot giving better odds to draws. So, big pairs go down in value and drawing hands go up in value. Will it loosen up the game? Probably. Will they still play no-foldem holdem? Certainly. A drawing, no foldem game becomes more correct as more money goes into the pot early on. Suppose that you institute a $10 ante in your $2/$4 game with $1&$2 blinds. (Nine handed) there is $93 in the pot before any action. What wouldn't you draw to? Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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| Re: add ante to limit holdem, ice, 22. Apr 2003 14:55 | ||
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| haha... good point paul ;) | ||
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| Re: add ante to limit holdem, Paul Stine, 22. Apr 2003 21:17 | ||
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| on 22. Apr 2003 14:55 ice wrote: > haha... good point paul ;) The point is that the set of hands you play are a function of the amount of information you have. Part of that information is pot odds. If the ratio of the amount of money already in the pot to the amount you have to put in to continue in the hand justifies playing the hand, then you put the money in the pot. Using the example I created, anyone not calling the blind would be making a mistake. The pot odds of 93:2 justify calling with any starting hand. People who play a lot of drawing hands in loose, passive games are generally acting correctly. The pot odds created by all that loose money in the pot dictate that a lot of drawing hands should play. Consider a nine-handed, 2/4 game where the UTG player always raises and everyone always calls the raise, but doesn't re-raise. You are in the big blind and, as described, everyone calls the raise, including the small blind. What set of hands would you not call the raise as well? There would be $4*8 + $2 = $34 in the pot when the action got back to you. You would be getting 17:1 for your call and you would only need to win about 5.88% of the time to break even, assuming the pot was checked down to the end after the flop. Based soley on the pot odds the only hands you would fold would be 83o,82o, and 72o. (These numbers are based on showdown simulations run by Steve Brecher and available at http://gocee.com/poker/HE_Val_Sort.htm) Consider a game with no blinds or antes, with what hands would you open the pot? Why? There would be nothing in the pot to win. You would be risking something to win nothing. You would be better off folding every hand and soaking up the free drinks. Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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| Re: add ante to limit holdem, Andrew Wells, 22. Apr 2003 14:46 | ||
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| See what someone making a live straddle does. More money in the pot to start tends to make the game looser. Ante's would start to force players to come in with weaker hands to stop the drain on their stacks. | ||
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| Re: add ante to limit holdem, stdioh, 22. Apr 2003 15:20 | ||
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| Indeed, there is sometimes a good reason to make a live straddle. That said, I find that the kind of player who makes them, makes them just about ever chance he gets. Any game in which a straddle is actually appropriate is one in which I wouldn't want to be in the first place. I like my games loose and passive (resisting the urge to make a ribald joke here). | ||
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| Re: add ante to limit holdem, Andrew Wells, 22. Apr 2003 15:36 | ||
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| I know of three situations where I would consider making a straddle. Playing heads-up or three handed with a straddle on the button. Having the kill button in the UTG position at a weak table if the floor allows you to straddle your own kill. The Mississippi straddle (or stroodle) on the button where you can take back the bet and fold if it's raised in front of you, otherwise the blind raise stands. This form of straddle should only be done occasionally as it's still -EV. I don't agree with those who would make a straddle just to loosen up a very tight game, because it's going to get tight again anyway. I also wouldn't make a straddle just to seem like an action player, since that false image isn't going to last long enough unless I get a run of cards right away. | ||
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| Re: add ante to limit holdem, ice, 22. Apr 2003 15:58 | ||
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| on 22. Apr 2003 15:20 stdioh wrote: > I like my games loose and passive (resisting the urge to make a ribald joke here). i bet ;) | ||
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| Re: add ante to limit holdem, Paul Stine, 22. Apr 2003 21:18 | ||
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| on 22. Apr 2003 13:47 jake-free wrote: > would it loosen up the game? > will they still play no-foldem? In no-limit tournaments an ante is added to play after the first three or four blind increases. Why? To stimulate the action (and to keep the tournament from lasting forever.) Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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