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Server Time: 12/2/2008 7:04:39 PM PACIFIC |
 Moving up question 3-6 to 6/12, Jayce, 22. Apr 2003 10:29 | ||
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| Question for some of you more experienced players. I am a solid low limit hold em player (LL being defined as 2/4-4/8) I have beat the game for about $10/hr over about 2000 hours in the past year and a half or so. My question is this, not having played a true 6/12 game before (I used to play 3/6 with a kill, constantly in Arizona but that's still pretty different) how much real difference is there in level of play that you encounter btwn 3/6 and 4/8 games and 6/12 or 8/16 games. IMHO (my very humble, under experienced opinion!) I would say that you don't start to see a constant real difference until your playing 8/16 or 10/20, Although at 6/12 you begin to run into other solid players with more frequency than you do at a 3/6 or 4/8 table. Thoughts, etc appreciated! | ||
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| Re: Moving up question 3-6 to 6/12, 4 POKER, 22. Apr 2003 11:22 | ||
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| The $$ amount when talking about the lower limits,2-4, 3-6, 6-12, shouldn't really change that much in how you should play your game. Yes the real low limits are probably quite loose, but if you have a big enough bankroll that can support you at the next level, then move up. As long as you feel comfortable in doing so- play a good solid game of poker (whatever limit you're playing), and have the understanding of adjusting your style depending on the texture of the game. If you are playing in a fairly loose game then tighten up your standards a little bit, make some more calls with the drawing hands as they will have more value now and just keep observing the game-sometimes a game will be loose but then a couple of new players will sit down and change the whole texture of the game;maybe the game will get tougher, maybe these new players are more aggresive, whatever, just keep your eyes open to all and any changes that might effect your play. You always have to be ready to readjust your game, even if it's the game that you're already playing in. Regardless of the limit, make sure your game is solid-make sure you have enough experience with all the "moves" and the correct strategy of play- fully understand or try to understand why these players are making the plays they are making-put yourself inside their heads-and ask yourself, honestly..."am I ready to play at this limit, or am I outclassed?" "Is this limit to high for me, am I playing scared or am I holding my own?" Sometimes a lower limit game will be more profitable- check all the games out first before you choose one to play at. Poker takes years to fully understand. It requires alot of patience and discipline. It requires putting in alot of hours. It requires you to have really keen reading abilities of your opponents. It is of the utmost importance that we never lose sight of the big picture. Don't let ego replace your skills and your knowledge-and never let it part you from your money! Play in games in which you feel will be the most profitable to you. Maybe you are ready to move up, maybe you're not- but if you do chose to play at the next level; be ready. Listen carefully, observe the actions and reactions of all the players, Don't loose more then you can afford, and make absolutely sure that you have chosen the best game for you. Your table selection will be very important. If one game seems to tough for you, then get up and sit in a another one. And if there aren't any games that look good enough to beat then don't play at all. (that is a part of discipline, patience, and good money management). Pick your spots wisely regardless of the limit, and you should do fine. (There is a post in this forum on "table selection"- it was posted by stdioh. Read what he has to say on this subject. It was very informative and I think it will be helpful to you.) 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Moving up question 3-6 to 6/12, stdioh, 22. Apr 2003 11:40 | ||
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| I would imagine that this is highly specific depending on where you play, how busy they get, etc, but I can give you the skinny on my local cardroom. They spread 5-10, 10-20, 20-40, 30-60, and 50-100, all in Canadian dollars so the USD equivalent would be divided by 1.44 so 5-10 is essentially 3.5-7 The 5-10 game is about as fishy as can be. Sometimes it is even too fishy. You'll get an average of 6-7 players seeing the flop on a lot of 5-10s there. Raising preflop doesn't do much to chase out players and there are plenty who will raise or reraise preflop in early position with garbage like KTo. They rake 10% up to $5 from every pot, so it is very pricey to play in and requires tight and uncreative play to beat. Basically, it is a game where the rocks do very nice for themselves. When I've sat at 5-10 I would say that in any game there is a 30% chance of getting a player coming over from carribean stud who has literally never played hold'em before. Now in stark contrast, the 10-20 is a shark pool, but if you look more closely, it isn't that bad. For one thing, they rake more money off the 5-10 than they do off the 10-20, which gives up $5 per 30 minute session per player. Now at the 10-20, the competent players are better since the optimal winning strategy has stopped being ABC. People trick and trap and make moves. Bluffs can actually work here sometimes. If you're just beating the 5-10, moving up is a bad idea. That said, the fish that draw thin, etc at 5-10 are just as bad when they play 10-20. You can find plenty of action players in the 10-20 games, but there will be more talent at your table too. My typical 10-20 game has 7 players of varying degrees of solid with 3 players of various shades of fish from maniacs to calling stations to players in love with K7o and no idea of position. It is definitely a game that an alert player can beat for 1 BB/hour and that a pro could slam around for 1.5 BB/hour. So in my case, I can make a lot more money from the 10-20 because I am also a solid player...as long as there is chum there, I'm raring to go. The 5-10 has more chum, but it's just harder to turn a profit...you toke one white chip for a pot either way, spend the same amount on coctail waitresses and milkshakes, spend as much on gas and driving time and time waiting for a table. When you know that you are good enough to move up, then do so. Now two things. First, dip your toe in the water. Start off only playing the higher limit when you know a couple of the fish sitting there. That's the way I play 20-40. I say, "Ah. Mr. Hooper AND Abdul are sitting in that game. If I can stay away from everybody else and pound on those two, I'll do just fine." By making sure there are a couple of donors in there you can limit the amount that the table will pound on you ... all of a sudden you're a small shark instead of a big tuna. The second thing is money management. Make sure you have enough of a roll to play with the big kids. Generally you should have 300 big bets that you are willing to part with before you can play a long time in a game. If all you have to lose is 2 buyins of 20 big bets each, then that game has a very high (though less than even if you are a positive player) chance of taking all your money before you get it back. | ||
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| Re: Moving up question 3-6 to 6/12, Jayce, 22. Apr 2003 12:17 | ||
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| Both 4 Poker and Stdioh thank you very much for your well thought out and informative yet supportive posts. I am really looking forward to my excursion to the higher limits as it is my goal to be playing mostly 6/12 but may have even hopped to 10/20 by the end of the summer. I have been honing my poker skills for about 5 years now in these low limit games albeit not all the time, there were two rather lengthy breaks in that period (one of about 10mos and one of about 6-7 mos) so I suppose 4 years is maybe more accurate. So I am eager to move up the rung and test the waters I suppose. Anyway Thanks again for the insight! :) | ||
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| Re: Moving up question 3-6 to 6/12, 4 POKER, 22. Apr 2003 12:47 | ||
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| on 22. Apr 2003 12:17 Jayce wrote: > Both 4 Poker and Stdioh thank you very much for your well thought out and informative yet > supportive posts. > > I am really looking forward to my excursion to the higher limits as it is my goal to be > playing mostly 6/12 but may have even hopped to 10/20 by the end of the summer. I have > been honing my poker skills for about 5 years now in these low limit games albeit not all > the time, there were two rather lengthy breaks in that period (one of about 10mos and one > of about 6-7 mos) so I suppose 4 years is maybe more accurate. So I am eager to move > up the rung and test the waters I suppose. > > Anyway Thanks again for the insight! :) You're quite welcome, Jayce. Remember, there are good players at all the limits so never underestimate your opponent. Put your feet in one at a time, don't let the limits intimidate your abilities and your good judgements will pay off. Best of luck to you:) 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Moving up question 3-6 to 6/12, stdioh, 22. Apr 2003 12:59 | ||
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| Yup. As 4 POKER said, don't be intimidated by the higher limit. Play like the chips don't equate to real money. That said, expect that there will be less people doing boneheaded things the higher you go because the fact of the matter is that the chips are real money. Oh, and be prepared to get acclimatised to the higher limits. When you are used to a high limit it becomes harder to play a lower one again as it is hard to respect the limit and easy to say, "It's only $5" and throw in a chip. That is a big caveat. | ||
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