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Server Time: 8/29/2008 9:18:46 PM PACIFIC |
 Toking ?, ranwel, 20. Apr 2003 19:53 | ||
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| What is an appropriate tip/toke to the dealer when winning a pot? Should the pot be a minimum size before tipping? What would be appropriate for a $4/8 holdem limit game? Thanks for reading. ran | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, Easy E, 20. Apr 2003 19:59 | ||
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| $1-2 should be good. Generally, at $4/8, I'd want a $30 pot or better to give a "full" tip. Often, if it's an especially large pot, or I sucked out on the river, I might make the tip a little bigger. | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, Nathaniel Brous, 20. Apr 2003 20:33 | ||
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| on 20. Apr 2003 19:59 Easy E wrote: > $1-2 should be good. Generally, at $4/8, I'd want a $30 pot or better to give a "full" tip. Often, if it's an especially large pot, or I sucked out on the river, I might make the tip a little bigger. Is that a play bad tax you impose on yourself? :) Dealing is tough job that should be rewarded (tips) for competence. I try and tip each hand the same, even the tiny ones. They are not responsible for everybody folding to me, nor are they responsible for me "catching." Not that generosity does not have a place, it does, but if you make it a habit, you have added an additional rake to overcome in lowlimit poker. - Nathaniel Brous | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, Paul Stine, 20. Apr 2003 21:09 | ||
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| on 20. Apr 2003 20:33 Nathaniel Brous wrote: > on 20. Apr 2003 19:59 Easy E wrote: > > $1-2 should be good. Generally, at $4/8, I'd want a $30 pot or better to give a > "full" tip. Often, if it's an especially large pot, or I sucked out on the river, I > might make the tip a little bigger. > > Is that a play bad tax you impose on yourself? :) Dealing is tough job that should be > rewarded (tips) for competence. I try and tip each hand the same, even the tiny ones. > They are not responsible for everybody folding to me, nor are they responsible for me > "catching." Not that generosity does not have a place, it does, but if you make it a > habit, you have added an additional rake to overcome in lowlimit poker. - Nathaniel Brous > I agree with Nathaniel. What I am looking for in a dealer is ability to control the flow of the game. How does the dealer do this? He/she: -doesn't make technical dealing mistakes (misdeals, flashed cards, etc.) -keeps the action moving along, will prompt a player that isn't paying attention, calls for players checks, etc. -keeps players moving into the game, annouces empty seats. -is happy, smiling, pleasent -facilitates, but does not get overly involved in, conversation at the table - knows the locals and welcomes the tourists -is genuinely thankful for tokes -diffuses volatile situations -knows the rules but will call a floorman for backup or in unusual situations This is what I am looking for (hell, paying for) and I reward it with tips. Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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| Nate and Paul- I agree, but.., Easy E, 21. Apr 2003 13:12 | ||
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| on 20. Apr 2003 21:09 Paul Stine wrote: > on 20. Apr 2003 20:33 Nathaniel Brous wrote: > > Is that a play bad tax you impose on yourself? :) har har.... no, an extra reward for getting me my nut flush card or something (you critic)... see below for more > They are not responsible for everybody folding to me, nor are they responsible for me > > "catching." Not that generosity does not have a place, it does, but if you make it a > > habit, you have added an additional rake to overcome in lowlimit poker. - No, I just try to balance it out. Where you give a flat rate, I don't give it all the time for small pots, will make it a little larger for big pots to compensate. Makes them a partner, in a sense, with me. > What I am looking for in a dealer is ability to control the flow of the game. How does the > dealer do this? He/she: > -doesn't make technical dealing mistakes (misdeals, flashed cards, etc.) > -keeps the action moving along, will prompt a player that isn't paying attention, calls for > players checks, etc. > -keeps players moving into the game, annouces empty seats. > -is happy, smiling, pleasent > -facilitates, but does not get overly involved in, conversation at the table > - knows the locals and welcomes the tourists > -is genuinely thankful for tokes > -diffuses volatile situations > -knows the rules but will call a floorman for backup or in unusual situations > > This is what I am looking for (hell, paying for) and I reward it with tips. Agreed. If some of the above is missing, then I will cut the tip. | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, 4 POKER, 21. Apr 2003 01:49 | ||
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| I think it's a good habit to always tip the same amount, regardless of the size of the pot. The dealer is sitting there dealing the cards and takes no responsibility if you win the hand or lose the hand.(when was the last time a dealer reached into their tip box and handed YOU a dollar because you just lost the hand?, Never, they take no blame for that--which means they can take no credit when you win as well. So don't feel that you have to toke a little extra now because you just "sucked out" at the river, this is part of the game and you shouldn't let that persuade you into tipping an extra dollar. Yes, it feels great when we win these nice sized pots, but if you get in to a habit of over-tipping, then that will always be expected of you. If you tip the same amount every time you will be better off. Keep in mind, if you play as a professional and calculate in the tips that you give annually, the numbers can reach to well over the $10,000 mark. If you have a losing session, but have still won about 8 hands or so, then you just lost 8 more dollars from tipping- but you lose 16 more dollars if you tip them $2 per hand, and that would just cut into your profit way too much or add to your loss even more. Overtipping will drastically cut into your anual income, and if you'd like to figure out exactly how much, I suggest you keep accurate records of it, you'll be amazed. My rule of thumb is, if the dealer is compitent and runs the game smoothly then I tip $1 dollar,ocassionally $2, but almost never. However, if the dealer is incompitent and makes a million mistakes, then why am I tipping that dealer for, and for what??? The dealer should take no credit if you win OR lose, so there's no way I'm tipping someone for their incompitence. Everyone takes notes on the game, they read lots of books, they may even keep records of their wins and losses, which is a very wise thing to do, but few players keep track of the money they give out for tipping, and you should, just for one year. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, timmer, 21. Apr 2003 06:59 | ||
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| If you tip off 1 or 2 cheques on a average pot you are giving away more than half your hourly profit. I tip a couple quarters on a big pot. Or if certain pairs hold up. I often tip when the dealer leaves the box ,does something extraordinarily well or does something that saves me money in one way or another. Profit minded LL players must not toke too much because the average bet size in much lower and that buck is a much more meaningful portion of that average bet. I know 60 players that tip a buck if they win. If I can clear a BB per hour and they win a BB per hour ( which in theory should be easer because of rakes and JP drops which mid and high limit players don't pay) an equivalent size toke for me in 5-10 is $.17 . So tipping a quarter is proportionally much higher than tipping a dollar in a 60 game. I usually end toke the best dealers out of my pocket. timmer | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, Roy Cooke, 21. Apr 2003 08:13 | ||
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| I think you should toke what is in your heart to give. If you like the dealer and the service tip them appropiately. If you don't like the dealer or the service feel free to not toke. Roy Cooke on 20. Apr 2003 19:53 ranwel wrote: > What is an appropriate tip/toke to the dealer when winning a pot? > Should the pot be a minimum size before tipping? > What would be appropriate for a $4/8 holdem limit game? > > Thanks for reading. > > ran | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, Nathaniel Brous, 21. Apr 2003 10:33 | ||
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| on 21. Apr 2003 08:13 Roy Cooke wrote: > I think you should toke what is in your heart to give. If you like the dealer and the service tip them appropriately. If you don't like the dealer or the service feel free to not toke. Roy Cooke Roy...perhaps I am reading too much into your words ( "like the dealer") ...but I tip plenty of dealers I don't like (personally). I tip them because they are excellent dealers (reasons that Paul covered). I have also on occasion tipped dealers when I have not played a single hand during their shift. Toking is the best way we can express ourselves to the dealers. For those of you who are new to poker, remember this. People who tip for good service can continue to expect it. BUT ...people who tip for poor service can also continue to expect it. - Nathaniel Brous | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, stdioh, 21. Apr 2003 10:41 | ||
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| The only dealers that I don't tip are the ones (there are two at Brantford - though I haven't seen them for a while so maybe they are no more) that are wretched dealers and don't belong there. Both of them are nice enough people, but they do everything wrong that a dealer can do. They shove pots in the wrong direction, they hum and haw about the math for a side pot and then get it wrong. They expose burn cards, deal slowly and inaccurately, etc. I never tip these two dealers and I make a point of making them feel bad when they screw up. Does this make me a bad person? Not really. I was to do my small part to encourage them to either shape up or ship out. If they take guff every day then they'll either get better, quit, or get moved to spinning the roulette wheel. Of course if one brings a gun to work one day, I'm in it deep. As for the really great dealers, I usually offer them words of encouragement. I would imagine that most of them hear a lot of crap for "dealing me bad cards" so I try to have something pleasant to say to the good ones whenever they have a shift. | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, stdioh, 21. Apr 2003 10:42 | ||
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| I should also mention that word goes around. If nobody is tipping Bruce, the other dealers are going to hassle him as they share all tips. | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, 4 POKER, 21. Apr 2003 12:42 | ||
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| on 21. Apr 2003 10:42 stdioh wrote: > I should also mention that word goes around. If nobody is tipping Bruce, the other dealers are going > to hassle him as they share all tips. That would be MORE of a reason not to overtip the dealer's. Why would you want to overtip one dealer knowing that he/she is splitting that toke with the other dealer's who may very well be incompitent-and does not run the game smoothly?? They don't share their tips in Atlantic City or Las Vegas, or Minnesota so I never have to worry about tipping one dealer and knowing that he/she will be splitting that with a dealer who might not be as compitent as the other's.The 'good ones' will always be rewarded. Yes, the dealer's salary is based on the tips they receive, however, tipping $1 dollar is sufficient in my opinion. It adds up tremendously just like it would for YOU if you were to overtip. I'm not saying that a player should try to cut his costs down by not tipping, I just think that to overtip would be a mistake if done on a regular basis. You can't be a professional poker player and overtip and still expect to make a decent livivg at the low and medium limits. If you play poker just for recreational purposes and or have another source of income, then yeah, if you want to feel generous and overtip, by all means go ahead. I also don't agree with not tipping your waitresses, why should they be penalized because you'd rather tip a dealer instead, they are working just as hard as any body else in that card room and in my opinion deserve the same respect when it comes to tipping. If you were to give out your tips evenly, one dollar for a winning hand and one dollar for a drink, then nobody would have to suffer from getting "stiffed"- that's just wouldn't be fair. Both people are in the service business and you must keep in mind that the dealer didn't build you that pot, you did, the other players involved did- they deal the cards and nothing more. They should NOT take any credit if you win the hand, They take no blame when you lose, either... just ask them!!! 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, stdioh, 21. Apr 2003 12:48 | ||
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| Indeed. I think that tipping should be just enough to not look like a cheap bastard...$1 per sizeable pot and $2 once in a blue moon for true monster pots. If you really want to flip in a red chip at some point then you should amortize it out and make a point of only doing it once every so many hours of play. | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, Nathaniel Brous, 21. Apr 2003 10:44 | ||
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| stdioh wrote <As for the really great dealers, I usually offer them words of encouragement. I would imagine that most of them hear a lot of crap for "dealing me bad cards" so I try to have something pleasant to say to the good ones whenever they have a shift.> That is an excellent point. Too few of us open our mouths to say something positive about someone doing a good job. This goes for any job. A kind word (warranted) can really do wonders. - Nathaniel Brous | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, stdioh, 21. Apr 2003 09:57 | ||
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| If I am going to be stingy, then it is usually towards the waitresses and not the dealers, but that said, it is very easy to become friendly with the coctail waitresses and then it's pretty hard to not tip. With the dealers, you need to realize that half their salary is in the tips and it is expected that you toke. I think that at any limit, toking 1 white cheque per pot is adequate. If a pot is unusually gigantic, I tip 2 chips. If it is tiny such as if I steal the blinds before the flop or fold 2 players out on the flop, then I don't toke. On average, I probably tip $0.80 per hand I win. That's peanuts compared to the session fee / rake and you really should be thinking of it as part of the session fee or rake. Yeah, it cuts into your bottom line, but so does gasoline and driving time, waiting time, and chewing gum. It's just a cost of doing business. | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, Wren, 21. Apr 2003 11:18 | ||
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| I always toke if there are at least 5 BB's in the pot, UNLESS the dealer is completely incompetent. If there are less than 5 BB's, I tip depending on a few factors (1) How well the dealer does his/her job (2) How friendly the dealer is (3) How long the hand took to deal out (for example, if I raised preflop and got 3 callers, then bet the flop and everyone folded, I'd be less likely to tip than if 8 people took the flop, it was checked down to the river and then I happened to win.) I tip $1 most of the time, but will sometimes tip $2 on a monster pot (at least 20-25 BBs). | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, 4 POKER, 21. Apr 2003 12:53 | ||
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| on 21. Apr 2003 11:18 Wren wrote: > I always toke if there are at least 5 BB's in the pot, UNLESS the dealer is > completely incompetent. If there are less than 5 BB's, I tip depending on a few > factors (1) How well the dealer does his/her job (2) How friendly the dealer is (3) > How long the hand took to deal out (for example, if I raised preflop and got 3 > callers, then bet the flop and everyone folded, I'd be less likely to tip than if 8 > people took the flop, it was checked down to the river and then I happened to win.) > > I tip $1 most of the time, but will sometimes tip $2 on a monster pot (at least > 20-25 BBs). If on average a dealer gets out 20 hands an hour, at one dollar tip a hand, plus $4-5 an hour in salary, that's an average of $25 an hour mostly tax free. That is damn good for unskilled labor. That's all I have to say on this subject! 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, stdioh, 21. Apr 2003 13:04 | ||
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| Well, the dealers at Brantford make about $50K per year, Canadian ... that would be about $35K USD and that includes tips, which make up about half of it. And the government here taxes tips too. All told, they're making about $20-$25K USD per year after taxes. Their job is certainly harder than unskilled labour and I think they deserve every penny they get. | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, 4 POKER, 21. Apr 2003 13:13 | ||
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| on 21. Apr 2003 13:04 stdioh wrote: > Well, the dealers at Brantford make about $50K per year, Canadian ... that would be about $35K > USD and that includes tips, which make up about half of it. And the government here taxes tips > too. All told, they're making about $20-$25K USD per year after taxes. Their job is certainly > harder than unskilled labour and I think they deserve every penny they get. We are obviously on different wave lengths here, I'm talking about U.S. dealers that average about $25 an hour and don't report most of their tips because they're not pooling them. (25 x 40 hrs. a week is $1,000.) And like I said, that's damn good, period. | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, stdioh, 21. Apr 2003 13:25 | ||
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| Yup...that is darned good. I'm not too touchy on the tipping thing in any event. I don't disrespect a player for it unless he *never* tips at all. I try to tip what I am expected to. Part of it is about being friendly with the dealers. And as far as investments go, you'd be surprised how many decisions go to the tippers instead of the nontippers when it is a tossup of a call made by a floorperson (and in my casino, most of the floorpeople double as dealers so they know our habbits well). | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, 4 POKER, 21. Apr 2003 21:35 | ||
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| I must say, stdioh and myself really know how to beat a "post "to a pulp!! 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Toking ?, Tommy waggoner, 22. Apr 2003 04:14 | ||
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| If everybody tipped a dollar per pot, and the dealers don't have to split their tokes, then dealing is a pretty good paying job. I used to be a dealer in St.louis, and San diego. The abuse and the stiffers is by far the worst part of the job. I used to have certain people bitch at me all the time, just because they were running bad, I mean real nasty comments, and usually these same low lifes were the ones that almost seemed to take joy in stiffing me. There were also alot of players who bought a roll of 50 cent pieces before their session, because 50 cents was the most you were going to get out of them no matter how big the pot, I personally believe that is pretty cheesy. As a player nowadays, I try to always tip one to two dollars, and a redbird for huge pots, and I never give the dealers a hard time, unless they truly do something to warrant it. | ||
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