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Server Time: 8/30/2008 12:22:36 AM PACIFIC |
 Short Handed Play, Dixie, 18. Apr 2003 15:47 | ||
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| I play quite a lot of $20/$40 hold em' short handed on paradise poker (they don't have a 5 max table, i just look for the short tables). i'm sure that some of you know that the games tend to be loose-aggressive. i am wondering what types of hands that i should be calling a raise cold with and what types i should be protecting my bb with? | ||
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| Re: Short Handed Play, 4 POKER, 18. Apr 2003 16:35 | ||
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| I'm surprised that you play at such a high limit (especially on-line poker) and are unsure of what hands are playable. If you say that you purposely look to play against a small field then I would think that you had experience with this type of game. Short-handed (5) games are played so much differently and with so much more aggression pre-flop, but with more check-raising after the flop. The reason for that is, you won't need to be as straightfoward in a short game because there won't be too many players that will be able to draw out on you, therefore the check-raise play works very well here. However, after saying all that... Short-handed games will work to your advantage if your opponents are weak, but if the game you're playing in is filled with loose and aggressive players then you really don't have that strong of an edge. Hands that play well with a full field do not play well shorthanded. High cards and pairs are very strong in a short game and are often played very hard. Ace rag is a much stronger holding then 8-9suited, so all those small drawing hands go right out the window, unless you are in the blind with very little or no raising pre-flop. You can be more liberal, in fact, you must be more liberal with your high cards, you must raise more with ace rag as A high often wins in a showdown. If you were playing in a full game and someone raised in front of you and you held A-10, your play would be to fold...however, in a short game you might have to re-raise as to try and isolate that player and hope you either flop good or can win with just your ace high. Middle pair on the flop can be a very strong hand in a short game, as it would almost never be if the game were full. Another example, small pocket pairs. In a full game facing a raise, these hands should be mucked, they're trash. However in a short game,(5) max, these hands are often re-raised and should be quite often, as you are again trying to isolate one player and hope that you won't need to flop much. The blinds come around way too often to be just a calling station; you must be aggressive but you must also pick your spots very carefully. All those hands that people play in a full game like... J-10, 10-9, 5-6 suited, go down in value, and your big ace goes way up in value. (A-J, A-10,and even A-9 are strong and should often be re-raised if you have that option to do so. If you feel comfortable with this type of play, and have a tremendous read on your opponents, then you could do quite well in a shorthanded game. However, If you are used to playing straightfoward poker and are only willing to play premium hands then I suggest you look for a full game to play in. 4 POKER | ||
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| Good advice, jdsalinger, 20. Apr 2003 09:23 | ||
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| Be prepared to checkraise bluff on the turn and river. Also you have to be prepared to not only to call with A high but sometimes K high also, regardless of how scary the flop is. That being said the 20/40 at paradise is about the the loosest most aggressive (well more like crazy) game you will ever encounter. | ||
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| Re: Short Handed Play, stdioh, 21. Apr 2003 12:51 | ||
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| Great post 4. I couldn't agree more. | ||
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| Re: Short Handed Play, 4 POKER, 21. Apr 2003 17:35 | ||
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| on 21. Apr 2003 12:51 stdioh wrote: > Great post 4. I couldn't agree more. Thanks stdioh, dave. | ||
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| Re: Short Handed Play, 4 POKER, 18. Apr 2003 16:53 | ||
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| on 18. Apr 2003 15:47 Dixie wrote: > I play quite a lot of $20/$40 hold em' short handed on paradise poker (they > don't have a 5 max table, i just look for the short tables). i'm sure that some > of you know that the games tend to be loose-aggressive. i am wondering what > types of hands that i should be calling a raise cold with and what types i > should be protecting my bb with? I'd like to add that when you are in the BB, you will be calling more raises with high cards. Example, if you were in a full game and an early position player raised and you held something like K-10, or A-9, you probably should throw it away, but in a short game I would call. If you were in the SB and faced the same bet, you also would make the call, but you would NEVER make a call out of that position in a full game- not from an early position raise. So again, you have to play a little bit loser but just keep in mind that you don't want to be calling bets and raises with small connectors. (If the majority of the hands are played heads up, then these holdings will not be profitable). HIGH CARDS, HIGH CARDS, HIGH CARDS!!! GOOD LUCK, 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Short Handed Play, Dixie, 18. Apr 2003 19:23 | ||
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| thanks for your advice. in fact, i probably phrased the post incorrectly, i have my own set of answers for my post that i have been applying to my shorthanded game, i was just curious to see what other players thoughts were on that scenario. i like your answer, your thoughts are very much the same as mine. after you commented that you were surprised i was playing short handed for high stakes, i began to wonder how much experience i actually do have at paradise $20/$40 short handed. when i checked my records, i have logged 200 hours at that game and i am up about 375 big bets. but before i began playing that game, i played a lot of short handed poker at the $5/$10 and then $10/$20 levels. | ||
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| Re: Short Handed Play, 4 POKER, 19. Apr 2003 06:43 | ||
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| on 18. Apr 2003 19:23 Dixie wrote: > thanks for your advice. in fact, i probably phrased the post incorrectly, i have my own > set of answers for my post that i have been applying to my shorthanded game, i was just > curious to see what other players thoughts were on that scenario. i like your answer, your > thoughts are very much the same as mine. > > after you commented that you were surprised i was playing short handed for high stakes, i > began to wonder how much experience i actually do have at paradise $20/$40 short handed. > when i checked my records, i have logged 200 hours at that game and i am up about 375 big > bets. but before i began playing that game, i played a lot of short handed poker at the > $5/$10 and then $10/$20 levels. Hi, Ok, then you have good experience with shorthanded play. Now let me refrase my comments that I posted if you will. I asked you why you were playing at such a high limit when playing on-line; not knowing who you are or your bankroll for that matter, 20-40 might be a perfect level for you and maybe I should have left that question out, It's none of my business what limit you play, I just know how much money can be lost playing those limits shorthanded. I actually know someone who lost over $20,000 in just a weekends worth of play and I thought to myself, "Wow, how can someone possibly lose all that money in just 2 or 3 days?" I'm sure that person was not playing his best, but I can see how one could stand the risk of losing quite a bit if they're playing at a high limit with so many hands being dealt out. I was just concerned, that is all. I wish I felt comfortable playing shorthanded hold-em, I just love a full field. I enjoy both stud and stud 8 or better shorthanded but have a problem readjusting to a shorthanded hold-em game. I'm curious, what made you decide to play in short games and why do you prefer them? Good luck, 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Thanks so Much re Short Handed Play, Poker Crone, 19. Apr 2003 07:47 | ||
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| I have been hoping to get a "minicourse" in this cuz the 6/12 and 9/18 limit holdem games i play at casinos, and the lower limit games i play in the wee hours on line, often end up short handed. i knew i had to play differently, but i didn't know how. thanks a million! | ||
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| Re: Thanks so Much re Short Handed Play, Snorbolus, 19. Apr 2003 08:25 | ||
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| Pokerpages.com recently ran a series of articles on playing in shorthanded Hold'em games. Probably worth looking at those too. Their archives are organised by month. I think these articles were posted during the first few months of this year. Snorbolus | ||
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| Re: Thanks so Much re Short Handed Play, shorn, 21. Apr 2003 05:48 | ||
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| on 19. Apr 2003 08:25 Snorbolus wrote: > Pokerpages.com recently ran a series of articles on playing in shorthanded Hold'em games. Probably worth > looking at those too. Their archives are organised by month. I think these articles were posted during > the first few months of this year. > > Snorbolus Also, S&M's HPFAP 21st Centyru edition has a whole section on SH play. Not that I play that a lot, but I found the concepts helpful. | ||
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| Re: Short Handed Play, Tommy waggoner, 19. Apr 2003 20:12 | ||
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| In short handed play, you need to lower your starting hand requirements, and that includes calling raises, otherwise, you will blind off your money, and be bluffed off of it. Keep in mind, because of this these games tend to be very swingy. | ||
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