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Server Time: 1/8/2009 12:39:37 PM PACIFIC |
 NL Hold'em Question, noiseboy, 16. Apr 2003 10:19 | ||
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| Hi there, I recently was dealt a pair of 66's at a $50 buy in No Limit table with .50/1 as the blinds. It was unraised before the flop with 5 or 6 limpers, so I went ahead and came in with the small pair, the flop comes 10-10-6 giving me a full house. It gets checked around to me, I bet $5 or so (I'm typing this from memory because I forgot the hand number) and get two callers. The turn is a rag, it gets checked to me, I bet again, around the same amount and the guy calls again. At this point, I think maybe he has AT, KT or JT since he didn't raise before the flop, and checked to me twice. I guess I the smooth call should have set off some alarm bells in my head, because the river was another rag and he checked AGAIN, I bet, then he comes over the top of me, but not all-in, only for the amount I bet, another $5. Turns out I ran right into his slow play with pocket TTs. Was there anything I could have done to minimize this loss? Probably, I shouldn't have bet the river, giving him the chance to come over, I ended up calling at the end, which was probably stubborn and stupid, because he surely had to have a monster to wait until the river to come over the top of me. I'm still new to No Limit, and I can't just be afraid that the nuts is out all the time or I'll never make any money, but I tend towards aggressive play in limit hold'em, where slowplaying is rarely correct, and in No Limit, I usually run into that wall at a sprint! | ||
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| Re: NL Hold'em Question, stdioh, 16. Apr 2003 10:26 | ||
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| This is a hand that you are going to lose a *LOT* of money on, no matter what. You have flopped a tight with TT6 on board and although you have only the second nuts, it is *highly* unlikely for one player to be holding both the case tens. You have to start putting money in now though because you don't want an opponent with a ten to draw to his kicker without paying for it and you don't want an opponent with a pocket pair over your sixes to draw out either. You need to be betting out here - fairly hard. You really want one opponent with AT to raise and isolate against you, then get all in on the flop. Nomatter how well you play it, the unlikely nuts was flopped and he is going to stick it to you. You're lucky he didn't rob you of more money. Time to suck in your gut, take a deep breath and dive back in. | ||
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| Re: NL Hold'em Question, noiseboy, 16. Apr 2003 10:47 | ||
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| Cool, I knew I was correct in betting it hard, i didn't want the board to pair again and someone else with a ten to get a better FH, or for an A to fall, making someone 10's full of A's. However, was it a mistake to bet the river without the nuts, when he has been smooth calling me? I mean the two smooth calls should scream out "SLOW PLAY" to me, shouldn't it? And if betting the river was correct, should I have called him when he came over top? He was in early position, so at that point, he pretty much has to either have the two tens, or he just has to be insane to be investing that much in a river bluff or semibluff. I know this is just one of those situations, like when you have KK's and someone has AA's, where you are just going to lose a bunch of $, just wondering if I played it right to minimize the damage. Thanks! | ||
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| Re: NL Hold'em Question, stdioh, 16. Apr 2003 10:53 | ||
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| Yep...you were right in playing it hard. As for the river, that's tough. You really want to bet it for value against his trip tens with a good kicker. A lot of it depends on the turn and river cards. If the turn and/or river are high, then it is possible he hit his overpair for a better tight and a check on the river is right. If the turn and river cards bring potential straights to the board then you want to hope that an opponent made a straight and thinks it is good enough, so you probably want to bet there. If they are undercards to the board then you should be betting for value. You really can't expect him to have the quads. Now when you bet and he comes over the top, board texture is everything. Is it possible that he just rivered a straight? Gotta call. What about that he just hit a tight better than yours? Should think seriously about folding. Does it look like he couldn't have hit anything at all? This is really suspect. Either he is putting you on a weakish hand and is trying to shove you around or he's got the quads. This is a place to stare into his soul and make up your own mind on whether or not to call. There is no right answer there - it is all about feeling. | ||
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| Re: NL Hold'em Question, Andrew Wells, 16. Apr 2003 13:23 | ||
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| I would be all-in on the turn, so in retrospect you got away relatively cheap. Your flop bet was okay it's enough to leave you with someone that has a ten or maybe an overpair. Now that there is enough in the pot on the turn, and you are also probably up against a ten, I would move all-in (and get crushed). | ||
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| Re: NL Hold'em Question, noiseboy, 16. Apr 2003 14:02 | ||
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| Yeah, you really don't expect those quads. I guess my post was more of a bad beat story than a question, although I did come to one realization about NL HE from the experience. Limit players usually interpret a check as weakness; however, in NL if somebody checks it can just as easily indicate great strength. It's a difficult game, damn fun though. | ||
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| Re: NL Hold'em Question, Bond18, 16. Apr 2003 18:10 | ||
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| You are debating a call on his bet, but i think it should be looked at in a raise fold manner, since one of the two is the right answer. With a full house and the the fact that he didn't bet you to hard on the river, i honestly woulda raised back at him, and gotten killed for it, cause hey how many people can say they've folded a full house before? | ||
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| Re: NL Hold'em Question, noiseboy, 17. Apr 2003 09:13 | ||
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| Right, I know it is almost always better to raise or fold in NL, calling is usually a mistake in many situations. However, as I was calling him, I could hear this voice in my head screaming "he's got four 10s, your full house is no good!!!!!" His raise on the river was small because he didn't think I would call any more than that, actually a good idea on his part, although he probably could have bet about twice as much and I may have still made the crying call. The funny thing is, this has happened to me twice in the last week where my gut feeling would have saved me a bad beat, the other time was when I had KK's and ran into someone slowplaying AA's. Both times the little voice in my head was screaming FOLD, and yet I still called. | ||
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| Re: NL Hold'em Question, stdioh, 17. Apr 2003 11:39 | ||
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| There are lots of times to fold a full house. The idea of a "raise or fold" situation is sometimes appropriate, but generally it is when you are holding a hand that cannot beat a bluff and wonder if you are being bluffed...then you either rebluf or muck your hand that is definitely the worst. In this case, if you raise and are wrong, then you get reraised - now do you fold? This is really a case where a raise is only going to make money if your opponent is totally crackers, since if you raise and he folds you had him beat anyway. | ||
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