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Server Time: 2/13/2012 9:11:44 AM PACIFIC |
 Omaha 8 high cards, 4 POKER, 16. Apr 2003 06:10 | ||
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| This is just a continuation from the "4 poker Question (there wasn't enough room to put it there)!! High hands that are very strong CAN be played in early position. Say If your holding A,K,Q, J double suited or just single suited(as long as it's the Ace that is suited), or a hand like A,K,K,10 suited w/ace, then Yes these holdings are playable. You can even raise with this hand for value because if it does flop high, not many players will think that this particular board has helped you. (simple reason being, most players raise with A2, and other similar low holdings). If the flop does come up low, then you can easily get away from this high hand, But there's nothing wrong in mixing up what hands you chose to raise with, as LONG as your high cards are very, very strong with all 4 cards working well with each other. Example, A high hand such as QQ, 9, K, is not a strong high hand and should not be played in early position at all, in fact that holding is questionable from any spot.(you can't make the nut flush, and your straight might be second best, etc.). 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Omaha 8 high cards, shorn, 16. Apr 2003 06:20 | ||
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| on 16. Apr 2003 06:10 4 POKER wrote: > This is just a continuation from the "4 poker Question (there wasn't enough room > to put it there)!! > High hands that are very strong CAN be played in early position. Say > If your holding A,K,Q, J double suited or just single suited(as long as it's > the Ace that is suited), or a hand like A,K,K,10 suited w/ace, then Yes these > holdings are playable. > You can even raise with this hand for value because if it does flop high, not > many players will think that this particular board has helped you. (simple > reason being, most players raise with A2, and other similar low holdings). If > the flop does come up low, then you can easily get away from this high hand, But > there's nothing wrong in mixing up what hands you chose to raise with, as LONG > as your high cards are very, very strong with all 4 cards working well with each > other. > Example, A high hand such as QQ, 9, K, is not a strong high hand and should not > be played in early position at all, in fact that holding is questionable from > any spot.(you can't make the nut flush, and your straight might be second best, > etc.). > > 4 POKER Got it. Thanks. I guess I had forgotten the deception type raise from early position. And you are right that you can get away from it quickly if low cards flop. I think the biggest thing for me to remember (as a hold em player) is that you should only play cards that are capabe of hitting the nut-nut as you put it and throw away all middle and non-nut low and high garbage. The hand you point out (QQ9K) is a great example. To a hold em player, that hand looks strong, but it seems to me that it can only buy you trouble. Is a safe rule of thumb that you should rarely if ever play any hand that doesn't have at least 1 Ace in it? | ||
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| Re: Omaha 8 high cards, 4 POKER, 16. Apr 2003 06:31 | ||
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| on 16. Apr 2003 06:20 shorn wrote: > on 16. Apr 2003 06:10 4 POKER wrote: > > This is just a continuation from the "4 poker Question (there wasn't enough room > > > to put it there)!! > > High hands that are very strong CAN be played in early position. Say > > If your holding A,K,Q, J double suited or just single suited(as long as it's > > the Ace that is suited), or a hand like A,K,K,10 suited w/ace, then Yes these > > holdings are playable. > > You can even raise with this hand for value because if it does flop high, not > > many players will think that this particular board has helped you. (simple > > reason being, most players raise with A2, and other similar low holdings). If > > the flop does come up low, then you can easily get away from this high hand, But > > > there's nothing wrong in mixing up what hands you chose to raise with, as LONG > > as your high cards are very, very strong with all 4 cards working well with each > > > other. > > Example, A high hand such as QQ, 9, K, is not a strong high hand and should not > > be played in early position at all, in fact that holding is questionable from > > any spot.(you can't make the nut flush, and your straight might be second best, > > etc.). > > > > 4 POKER > > Got it. Thanks. I guess I had forgotten the deception type raise from early > position. And you are right that you can get away from it quickly if low cards flop. > I think the biggest thing for me to remember (as a hold em player) is that you > should only play cards that are capabe of hitting the nut-nut as you put it and throw > away all middle and non-nut low and high garbage. The hand you point out (QQ9K) is a > great example. To a hold em player, that hand looks strong, but it seems to me that > it can only buy you trouble. > > Is a safe rule of thumb that you should rarely if ever play any hand that doesn't > have at least 1 Ace in it? That is good practice to get into definitely , however, hands like 2,3,4,5 are worth playing(not for multiple raises though), and hands like 2,3,KK are also pretty decent starters. Keep in mind that just because a hand might contain an Ace, that doesn't mean it's a good hand, even if it's suited. example, A,8,9,10 suited is real trash- I'd rather be holding 2,3,4,5. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Omaha 8 high cards, stdioh, 16. Apr 2003 07:25 | ||
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| I would say that a better rule of thumb is that you need 4 card combinations that work together. ie make 4 distinct good hold'em hands out of your 4 omaha cards (or good low hands). Thus hands with an ace have an obvious advantage as you can make highs and lows with them. Something like TJQK with a suited K for instance makes TJ, JQ, QK, and KJs which makes it playable (though not *premium* by any stretch). Something like the princess AA23 double suited is obviously wonderful because it makes AA, A2, A3, 23, A2s, A3s (different suit), which gives you three nut high chances and three nut low chances - a combination of 6 premium hi-lo hold'em hands. This reasoning is oversimplified (like starting hands for hold'em), but I think it makes a decent guideline. | ||
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| Re: Omaha 8 high cards, shorn, 16. Apr 2003 07:44 | ||
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| OK. Thanks to both 4 POKER and stdioh. I think I have it now. I will read all of Badger's articles and then go give the game a try. I need something to break up my Hold em monotony (and losing streak...) | ||
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| Re: Omaha 8 high cards, Wren, 16. Apr 2003 08:39 | ||
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| Annie Duke also has some good O8 material linked from the UltimateBet site. Lemme see if I can find the link....Yup, here it is: http://www.ultimatebet.com/team_ub/duke/omaha.html She discusses what we were talking about here (undervaluing high-only hands in O8) and also how people overvalue many other holdings (connecting low cards, small pairs, random A2 hands, etc.) | ||
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| Re: Omaha 8 high cards, shorn, 16. Apr 2003 08:44 | ||
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| Thanks Wren. This is good stuff! | ||
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| Re: Omaha 8 high cards, Wren, 16. Apr 2003 09:23 | ||
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| No prob :O) Annie's a great O8 player. If you feel so inclined, you can even sit down & play with her at Ultimate Bet! (She's often at the $4-8 half-kill table). She doesn't have a problem with providing advice & hand commentary for the other players. | ||
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| Re: Omaha 8 high cards, shorn, 16. Apr 2003 09:40 | ||
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| Yeah...while taking a newbie like me to the cleaners!! :) | ||
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| Re: Omaha 8 high cards, stdioh, 16. Apr 2003 10:09 | ||
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| That's a small price to pay for some of the best poker advice you can buy. | ||
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| Re: Omaha 8 high cards, noiseboy, 16. Apr 2003 08:45 | ||
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| How do you feel about raising with you super strong hands in O8? I started off raising from early position with my AAxx double suited and A23x with a suit, but realized that I was discouraging people from entering the pots with worse hands. Remember I'm still at the low limits where people will play any kinda crap in an unraised pot. So now my standard play is to limp and hope for a reraise with these. Paradoxically, I will raise with the hands you mention in your post, which are somewhat weaker than the premium hands. Am I being too weak by not betting the monster hands for value? I guess my theory is that these people play bad after the flop if I let them in, so it's not a tragedy if nobody puts in the pre-flop raise. BTW, thanks for the O8 posts, great stuff. | ||
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| Re: Omaha 8 high cards, noiseboy, 16. Apr 2003 08:49 | ||
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| Oops, in my post when I'm talking about premium hands I list AAxx double suited, but I meant to qualify that the xx were any two wheel cards, which makes it more of a monster than just two random suited cards. | ||
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| Re: Omaha 8 high cards, stdioh, 16. Apr 2003 10:13 | ||
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| AAXX is really interesting in O8. AA22 is wonderful, AA33 is very very good. AA44 is ok. AA55 is fuh. I'll take AA99 over AA55 any day and the reason is this. If you hit a 5 you're not looking at top set anyway and even if your high is good you're probably splitting with a low. A5 almost never makes a low. And only two wheel cards doesn't make a wheel very often. With AA99 if you hit your 9, it is a non-low card so you're fighting for the whole pot instead of half right there. It probably isn't going to make you the nut tight, but you'll have a lot better chance winning it than with a bottom set that pairs the board. Now something like AA66 is just getting gross. | ||
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