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Server Time: 12/2/2008 6:59:13 PM PACIFIC |
 Bankroll management, Schuster, 15. Apr 2003 15:13 | ||
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| I have a few newbie type questions... First, is 5/10 considered a low limit game? I didn't think so, but I was watching one last night for a while and it seemed surprisingly soft. If the game does seem really soft, should I sit down for a while even though my bankroll is not 300 big bets (less than a third of that)? I saw one guy who played Ax offsuit pretty frequently. Starting requirements seemed pretty low regardless of position. Second, how much of your bankroll do you typically keep in your online account? I really don't want to cash out or deposit too frequently, but I am a bit nervous about having too much in there at once... | ||
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| Re: Bankroll management, john ray, 15. Apr 2003 17:17 | ||
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| I think most people would consider 5-10 a medium limit. I play 15-30 at a local Indian casino and have faired well, but I am there when it is mostly holiday traffic. When I started online I thought as you so I jumped right into 5-10 and got my head handed to me first month. I have since gone to lower limits and will build a foundation before I move up . Stidoh ( I think) made the comment the other day about getting ahead 300 bb before moving up. I think that is as good a number as any. Your skill level may allow you to start there , mine did not. Just a thought. John | ||
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| Re: Bankroll management, Andrew Wells, 15. Apr 2003 18:30 | ||
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| 300 BB is what you need assuming you are a solid winning player, and that you intend to keep playing at a particular limit. If you are prepared to move down in limit should you lose, you may get by with significantly less. Let's say you're playing a comfortable 3-6 regularly with enough bankroll to cover bad runs. I would take shots at 5-10 occasionally if the game looked soft like you said this one did. You're not going to risk everything, but if you get stuck 100-150 you should be prepared to leave it and return to 3-6 to rebuild. There's nothing inherently wrong with taking shots when appropriate if you're somewhat underfunded. As to how often and what to withdraw, that's got to be a personal decision. I would wait until I could cash-out a hundred or two beyond my initial buy-in such that I lock up a win for that deposit. At least keep enough to bankroll no less than one limit below what you ordinarily have been playing. | ||
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| Re: Bankroll management, 4 POKER, 15. Apr 2003 20:42 | ||
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| The "Books" say that from $1-2 thru $10-20 is low limit. $15-30 thru $30-60 is middle limit. $40-80 and up is high limit. This poker chart if you will, are the opinions of professional poker players, one who has much experience in the poker world. They are authorities on the subject, they have degree's in mathematics, and many of them are teachers and have written many books on poker. This should not influence you in playing at any other limit except for the one that you feel comfortable with and can afford to play. My rule of thumb is, I'll play at a limit where I feel that I can make all the correct betting decisions. If I'm afraid to raise someone or bluff someone out of a pot because the betting is high, then that particular limit is too high for me. However, If I'm playing in a game where the limits are too low for me then sometimes I might play hands that I wouldn't ordinarily play. (If I find myself saying, "oh, it's only a dollar to call", but my hand is garbage, then that limit is definitely too low for me). The limit should never interfere with a player's decision making. One should play at a limit where- If you feel that it is correct to raise, then you raise. If you feel that you should fold because your hand doesn't warrant a call, then you fold. It's that simple... You play where YOU feel your best. Don't worry if the limit your playing is not "high limit"- who cares. You are there to make money but you are Not there to go broke. And when someone does play above there bankroll they are taking that risk all the time. As a beginner to the poker world,(not knowing your bankroll), I think you should start out at the lower limits. Get a feel for poker, keep records, read books, and if you find that you are a winning player at that limit then move up to the next limit, so on and so on... Poker is played much differently at the higher limits. You might reach a certain limit and say, "this limit is a little too high for me, I'm not playing my best poker, I am playing scared". If and when you ever feel that uneasiness in a game, then you are playing too high. Just step down to a lower limit, find your comfort zone, figure out in which limit that you are most profiting from and that will be the limit that is most suited for you...mentally and monetary. How much you bring to a $5-10 game will be up to you. Don't lose more then you can afford to lose, period. ($3,000 poker bankroll is more than enough, but about right.) As far as playing on-line, again only you know how much money you can afford to put into an account on a poker site. In my opinion, If you're going to play low limit, (and I seriously hope that you do, only because the higher limits play much, much higher when played on-line), then about $500 sounds reasonable. That should be enough money for you to get a good feel for on-line poker. ($1-2 thru 2 -4 limit) You can always add to that if you wish. Choose a site that will be offering you the biggest selection of games and try to scope out several sites to find the softest games before you deposit your money there.( I think Party Poker has pretty soft games/ and they also have a good selection of limits to chose from.) Good luck to you. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Bankroll management, Schuster, 15. Apr 2003 23:34 | ||
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| Thanks for the replies everyone. I asked about 5-10 being a low limit game not because I was going to play it or not just because it was classified as such, I was just surprised at the seemingly low quality of play there. Needless to say, I'm looking forward to the point where I have the funds and confidence to sit in those games. I've been doing exactly that, 4 poker, playing in the 2/4. I've been having a ton of fun and doing reasonably well, which is exciting. Thanks again for answering my questions, all of you, I probably wouldn't be winning without this forum! | ||
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| Re: Bankroll management, shorn, 16. Apr 2003 05:46 | ||
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| Be careful to base your opinion of 5-10 on one game that you saw, especially on-line. I know of some really strong players who don't play higher than 5-10 online, so some of the games are quite tough (comparable to a 10-20 or 15-30 B&MM game). | ||
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| Re: Bankroll management, 4 POKER, 16. Apr 2003 06:20 | ||
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| on 16. Apr 2003 05:46 shorn wrote: > Be careful to base your opinion of 5-10 on one game that you saw, especially on-line. I know > of some really strong players who don't play higher than 5-10 online, so some of the games are > quite tough (comparable to a 10-20 or 15-30 B&MM game). I agree, in fact some of your best players are the one's who play at the 3-6 and 5-10 levels. Maybe that is because these players are really trying to grind out a living here, I don't know but i've watched so many players play at the 15-30 and up levels on-line, and they were just giving there money away! 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Bankroll management, shorn, 16. Apr 2003 06:23 | ||
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| That is true too. The poker sea is large and by god there are fish at every water (betting) level... :) | ||
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| Re: Bankroll management, AnyAce, 16. Apr 2003 07:04 | ||
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| In addition to all the good points made above, I'd recommend you get some online poker tracking software such as Pokertracker or Pokerstat (Make sure the software you choose supports the site you are playing at, I play at Stars and use pokertracker and love it). I agree that the 3-6 & 5-10 games online can be sometimes very tough. You often get a mix of a few clueless players and some very expert players who are playing so tricky that it appears that do not know what they're doing (by the standards of Lee Jones' LL book, etc), . This makes getting a read more difficult for me sometimes. Also, since the online games are so much faster (in terms of hands per hour) your variance is magnified, when its good it can be really good, but when its bad... Hope this helps. AnyAce | ||
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| Re: Bankroll management, 4 POKER, 16. Apr 2003 07:19 | ||
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| on 16. Apr 2003 06:23 shorn wrote: > That is true too. The poker sea is large and by god there are fish at every water (betting) level... :) GOOD ONE!!! | ||
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| Re: Bankroll management, timmer, 16. Apr 2003 07:11 | ||
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| Remember that money management is a very personal thing . In fact a huge part of it is to protect your psychological well being.\\ also be aware the when moving up in limits not only do the bets get larger , the action becomes more aggressive . Much more in some cases. A friend of mine tried his hand at the 160 lately. This person told me that to play that game rather than the usual 60 you would need 4 or 5 times the BR . It was that much more aggressive. So rather than thinking in terms of " I need 600 big bets at the limit IM playing to move up to the next limit" think in terms of IF I go to war with superior foes can I get by with just twice as many bullets in my gun? I don't think so In fact I would like to have twice what I think I'll need to get the job done. Now there is much to say about free rolling to a higher limit and taking shots at higher games that appear to be soft . Well people are often fooled by appearances. And taking a shot is just that . You might want to take a shot at the 30 tonight because half the players are in the bag. That's ok but don't think you are going to stick. Hit and run . Get some experience and use it to plan your future attacks. | ||
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| Re: Bankroll management, 4 POKER, 16. Apr 2003 07:26 | ||
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| on 16. Apr 2003 07:11 timmer wrote: > Remember that money management is a very personal thing . In fact a huge part of it > is to protect your psychological well being.\\ > > also be aware the when moving up in limits not only do the bets get larger , the > action becomes more aggressive . Much more in some cases. > > A friend of mine tried his hand at the 160 lately. This person told me that to play > that game rather than the usual 60 you would need 4 or 5 times the BR . It was that > much more aggressive. > > So rather than thinking in terms of " I need 600 big bets at the limit IM playing to > move up to the next limit" think in terms of IF I go to war with superior foes can I > get by with just twice as many bullets in my gun? I don't think so In fact I would > like to have twice what I think I'll need to get the job done. > > Now there is much to say about free rolling to a higher limit and taking shots at > higher games that appear to be soft . Well people are often fooled by appearances. > And taking a shot is just that . You might want to take a shot at the 30 tonight > because half the players are in the bag. That's ok but don't think you are going to > stick. Hit and run . Get some experience and use it to plan your future attacks. You're opening statement, Bankroll management is also a way to protect your psychological well-being is right on the money in my book. Well stated! 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Bankroll management, stdioh, 16. Apr 2003 07:30 | ||
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| In a B&M casino even 10-20 is low limit. Online, I think that 5-10 is middle limit - that doesn't mean that you can't find a very soft game. If it is really good, sit and try it. You might lose your whole bankroll playing well, but if you want to get in the best games with limited funds, risk is a big part of it. As for how much money to keep online, not much...what's the point? You can always put more back there if you bust out and why take risks with too much of your money? I'd say keeping 150 or 200 big bets at the limit you play is plenty to have in there, so long as you have a means of putting more in if you bust out. | ||
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