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Server Time: 12/2/2008 7:05:55 PM PACIFIC |
 4 POKER- Question, shorn, 15. Apr 2003 06:28 | ||
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| I have been getting beaten up playing Hold Em recently and have seen the posts on O8 being a good bankroll builder. What book(s) would you recommend I study before diving in? Thanks, Steve | ||
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| Re: 4 POKER- Question, stdioh, 15. Apr 2003 08:34 | ||
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| Bob Ciaffone has a decend Omaha Hi-Lo book out ... I've looked through it a little and I think it would be good for a beginner...as for high only, I don't know who you should be reading. | ||
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| Re: 4 POKER- Question, shorn, 15. Apr 2003 09:02 | ||
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| on 15. Apr 2003 08:34 stdioh wrote: > Bob Ciaffone has a decend Omaha Hi-Lo book out ... I've looked through it a little > and I think it would be good for a beginner...as for high only, I don't know who you > should be reading. Thanks. I will look into Bob's book. I have played O8 in home games before, but never for serious $$. I want to make sure I am prepared before going to battle. | ||
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| Re: 4 POKER- Question, noiseboy, 15. Apr 2003 09:24 | ||
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| Hey there shorn, you don't really even need a book at first to start winning money at the low limit tables. Just go read all the Omaha 8 articles by Steve Badger at his site http://www.playwinningpoker.com/ I believe he is one of the best O8 players there is, and he is extemely good at conveying ideas in a clear manner. If you've been having problems with the swings of Texas Hold'em, then you should consider Omaha, because of the Hi-Lo factor and the fact that you see more of your cards in the beginning, premium starting hands are more likely to hold up, thus reducing your swings. I've also been reading Cloutier's book, which is quite good, but it's more focused on tournament strategy. | ||
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| Re: 4 POKER- Question, stdioh, 15. Apr 2003 10:21 | ||
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| Good point. I read Badger's articles and they are great. | ||
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| Re: 4 POKER- Question, shorn, 15. Apr 2003 11:08 | ||
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| Thanks guys. I will check these out. Anyone recommend Ray Zee's book on hi/lo split? | ||
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| Re: 4 POKER- Question, stdioh, 15. Apr 2003 11:25 | ||
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| Yup. I haven't read it yet, but it is on my short list. The lovely Wren has a copy of it and she thinks that it is good - I trust her opinion to be sure. Half of what I know I learned from her |:0] | ||
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| Re: 4 POKER- Question, Wren, 15. Apr 2003 12:04 | ||
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| :O) Yup, Zee's book is good. I think his Stud-8 material is marginally better than his O8 material, but what he has on O8 is solid, and from what I've heard, the best coverage of the game currently in print. Yes, Badger's Omaha articles are also quite excellent. I read his articles before the Zee book, and I attribute my online potlimit O8 success mainly to what I learned from him. One thing though - premium starting hands in Omaha do NOT hold up as often as premium starting hands in Hold'em. However, from the flop onward, Omaha hands SHOULD be easier to play. You want to either flop the nuts (preferably with one or more redraws), or a good draw to the nuts. If you flop something like bottom two pair or a single non-nut draw, or a draw to the 3rd low, get rid of the junk. Other players will routinely play crap like this from the flop onward, and this is where a good player makes his/her money. The "implicit collusion" phenomenon does not occur in Omaha like it does in Hold'em because (ideally) you're drawing to the nuts, and they're all drawing to other non-nut hands. Badger discusses this in detail in his article. | ||
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| Re: 4 POKER- Question, noiseboy, 15. Apr 2003 13:28 | ||
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| Good point about the premium starting hands holding up more in Hold'em, I guess what I meant to say is that the division between good and bad starting hands is much more clear in Omaha. In hold'em there is a small group of GREAT hands at the top, and a whole lot of marginal hands which are good in certain situations. In Omaha, there are fewer playable hands, proportionally, and a large majority of the hands are TOTAL GARBAGE. The Omaha hands also play easier, as you mentioned, because more of the hand is defined at the flop, since you know seven of nine cards at that point. | ||
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| Re: 4 POKER- Question, stdioh, 15. Apr 2003 13:34 | ||
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| Indeed. Omaha players feed off of hold'em players who think things like, "Wow. KK67 double suited. That's got all the edge of suited connectors and more, plus a giant pocket pair." Omaha players see QKAA rainbow and say, "Here's a hand I can finally play." | ||
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| Re: 4 POKER- Question, shorn, 15. Apr 2003 13:35 | ||
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| QKAA rainbow looks like a marginal O8 hand. Are you talking about Omaha high only? | ||
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| Re: 4 POKER- Question, stdioh, 15. Apr 2003 13:41 | ||
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| That's what I was thinking of when I wrote that, though QKAA isn't bad for O8. You don't rely on low cards, so if you hit your hand it is unlikely for there to be a low and if you hit your ace then A2 and A3 lows are going to be counterfeit so any lows are less likely to be hanging on. | ||
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| Re: 4 POKER- Question, 4 POKER, 15. Apr 2003 14:40 | ||
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| Good question... There are several helpful books on Omaha 8 I'm sure,however, honestly speaking, I have only read Ray Zee's book "High low split poker, seven card stud 8 and Omaha 8 for advanced players. Omaha 8 was the hardest game for me to adapt to because I was so used to being able to win a hand with two pair and other holdings that are just inferior to your average winning hand in Omaha. And if you are an avid hold-em player, the adjustment might even be harder for you. The nuts in Omaha are almost always out there. I paid my dues that's for sure- It took me a whole year before I really understood the game and all of its aspects. I think that if someone reads up on the game first, before diving right into it, they will have a better understanding in making a right decision opposed to making a very costly mistake. Because there are thousands of combinational hands, you must dedicate a lot of your time to gain the experience and the understanding of how this game should truly be played. It takes time, practice, and a whole lot of patience. (so many hands that you can play in the other forms of poker suddenly are no longer playable in Omaha 8). You must be able to adjust and adapt to playing key hands that work for this game, combinational hands that will be profitable and the knowledge and experience it takes to realize that. It is game in that once you realize what hands are premium and which ones that prove themselves costly, you will gain such a tremendous edge over the other players. There are situations that occur in Omaha to whether you're playing in a full game or short-handed; or if you're playing low to medium limits opposed to very high limits. The game is played differently in all of these. The best advise I can give would be to start out at a lower limit in a full game to get the practice and the discipline you need in playing very strong starting hands.(we all know that when a game is short you can be more liberal on your starting hands), however, I don't think this a good habit to get into when you are just starting out and trying to really learn and understand the game. To this day, Omaha 8 is my favorite game. It can be quite frustrating at times...nut-nut draw and then nothing! But I hung in there because its rewards are far greater! 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: 4 POKER- Question, noiseboy, 15. Apr 2003 14:28 | ||
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| A lot of times a flop will come with only one or zero low cards, then you are pretty much playing Omaha high in which AAKQ can be a powerhouse, especially with some suits on the A's. In this case you'd have set and full house potential, nut flush and straight posssibilities. However, sometimes people will catch runner-runner low cards and you might have to split, although they shouldn't chase two cards for half the pot, sometimes they will. When the flop comes low, you can get away pretty easily from the high-only hands. Don't get me wrong though, your hands that go both ways, like A23x with a suit, or AA23 double suited are MUCH better than the one way high hands, but in the right situation the high hands can scoop you a big pot too. Anyway, this is just from what I've read and my minimal experience, so I don't claim to be an O8 expert (yet). | ||
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| Re: 4 POKER- Question, shorn, 16. Apr 2003 05:35 | ||
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| OK. Thanks to both. I would think that it would best to leave these types of hands for middle and late position as you can really only go one way. It would seem intuitive (without doing the math) that hands that can go both ways would be necessary to enter a pot from early position (unless the game is loose passive). | ||
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| Re: 4 POKER- Question, Andrew Wells, 15. Apr 2003 18:48 | ||
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| Zee's book doesn't really address what to be doing out of the blinds in the Omaha-8 portion. It's still a must read, but not nearly as full of ideas and examples as the other 2+2 classics. I'm not disrespecting the work, it's just not as complete as it could have been. | ||
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