|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 8/29/2008 12:10:44 PM PACIFIC |
 Poker authors vs "Good" Poker players, Mojo702, 14. Apr 2003 18:48 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I'm a beginner and have read a number of books on hold 'em poker. I've been playing online some and still have so much to learn. I appreciate all the advice Caro, Cooke, give on this site as well as the info given in the books and seminars by them and others such as Sklansky, Ciaffone, Krieger, to name a few. But, how well do the authors of these books do in "real" life games? I don't see there names in the "big" games/tournaments and if they are listed, not too close to the top. Please understand that I mean no disrespect to any of these names. But would like insight as to how well they do. I know that Caro is the "Mad Genius of Poker" yet I don't find him in any of the "Big Ones." Are they just middle-limit players grinding out a living? Hell, I would love to do that instead of having to go "to the office" and grind out 40 hrs/wk. Comments? Mike and Roy....no disrespect intended. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Poker authors vs "Good" Poker players, Easy E, 14. Apr 2003 19:51 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| You shouldn' think that tournaments are the be all and end all of poker | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Poker authors vs "Good" Poker players, Mojo702, 15. Apr 2003 04:55 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| No...I don't think of the big NL tournaments as the end goal of poker. However, I do think of them as a sort of "gauge" as to how one stacks up against "the world." I mean, is this how they make their living? Are they making a 5/6-figure income from playing poker and not from book sales? Do they hold "real jobs" and play poker as a hobby, as second income, just for fun? I know that Lee Jones says that he still has a "real job." He says so in his book. But none of the others say much about where poker has taken them. Are their names synonamous with poker because of a good PR company? Or are they REALLY the best poker players. I know a person can be book smart and teach the other students in school what it's all about, yet can't do it outside of the books and/or school. Know what I mean? I want to know where I can go. I would love to know that I COULD possibly be good enough to make mis/high five figure/6 figure income from playing poker and NOT have to do the 9-to-5 thing at the office... I intended no disrespect to anyone that I've named or haven't named. This was be no means an attack on anyone. I HAVE gained valuable information from them. I just want to know... | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Poker authors vs "Good" Poker players, flintsword, 14. Apr 2003 21:58 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I think that generally speaking, most if not all poker book authors are "good" players, in the same way that most chess book authors are "good" players. It is just that some of these poker authors are super players (sklansky, etc) as some chess authors are super players (Kasparov). There is probably a canyon of ability between "good" and "great". Just a guess on my part, but I saw this in the chess world and the parallels are interesting. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Poker authors vs "Good" Poker players, Mark, 15. Apr 2003 09:21 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| > advice Caro, Cooke, give on this site as well as the info given in the books and > seminars by them and others such as Sklansky, Ciaffone, Krieger, Caro and Sklansky were regarded as the best in the world at one time. I'm sure they still are in the top but they spend alot of time writing and teaching now. These guys used to buy into multiple $10,000 events at the WSOP with no other source of income, in the 70's and 80's. thats more like $25,000 today. So they were making quite alot back then. I don't know much about Ciaffone's and Krieger's poker careers, but their writings are very good and I SUSPECT they have large income's due to poker. There are a ton of books out there that are pretty much useless also. Many authors are not experts on the subjects they write about. mark | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Poker authors vs "Good" Poker players, stdioh, 15. Apr 2003 09:30 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Roy is a great limit player. The big tournaments you see up in bright lights are generally no limit and there is even a world of difference between ring games and limit tournaments. Roy's great at what he does and doesn't do much of what he's not great of - at least that's my impression. Sklansky is an expert at making money, not placing first. Sklansky is very very very good at moneying in tournaments and very very very bad at winning them. He's one to play the hell out of the math, not one to "double up or get up" ... respect the words of both of these men. As for Mike, Krieger, Ciaffone, and the rest, these are guys who have a tremendous amount of respect in the poker world - it only stands to reason that they are good good poker players. Are they the very best? Nope. It's not easy to be both a great player and a great writer. Are they among the best? Absolutely. Phil Hellmuth is a great player, but a rather weak writer - he couldn't do what Caro and Sklansky and Cooke do. Somebody like Phil Ivey is clening up right now, but he probably doesn't have the time to write a book. The important thing is that if you're reading books and learning, there are hundreds of players will all the knowhow of all the books you've read - only a few of them have the time, patience, ability, and presence of mind to write their own books though. Nonetheless, those that write the books know what they are talking about or they wouldn't be published at all. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Poker authors vs "Good" Poker players, noiseboy, 15. Apr 2003 10:05 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Most of the people who write these books have played professionally for a long time. I think what happens is that you get burned out sitting at a table playing poker all the time, and if you let it, it could become just as much of a grind as your 9 to 5 job. Also, the great thing about writing a successful book is that you get royalties for years and years to come, if you are Sklansky or Caro, you'll be getting royalty checks until you die for books you wrote a long time ago. Not a bad deal really, considering that playing poker doesn't offer any retirement plan. Also, you're point about why these players are not in all the big tourney's winning is a good question; I think the answer lies in the fact that the tournament lifestyle is not easy and it's not for everyone. The players on the tournament circuit are always traveling and living in hotel rooms and spend long periods away from their families. Also, there is a lot of stress in that a bad run can really break you when you are playing events with entriy fees of several thousand dollars, not to mention travel and lodging expenses. It's much easier to just live in Vegas or California and fleece all the tourists at a 20-40 at the Bellagio, write books in your spare time at your leisure. Seems like a good life to me! One last thing, when you talk about people who like to specialize in poker "theory", I think it is good to look at how respected these people's ideas are in the poker community. A lot of the top players will tell you outright that they learned a lot of what got them there from Sklansky, Caro and others. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Poker authors vs "Good" Poker players, noiseboy, 15. Apr 2003 10:10 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| One last thing, if you are mainly interested in tournaments, I can't recommend the Championship series by Cloutier and McEvoy highly enough. You get two of the tournament greats ideas in easily understood and well thought out books. What's really great is that they often give both of their points of view when they disagree, and you can make up your own mind about which you think is better, or works better with your style of play. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Poker authors vs "Good" Poker players, shorn, 15. Apr 2003 13:33 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I totally agree on the comment here about TJ and Tom's book. Great, great stuff from two of the top top NL and PL players in the world. Also, Roy Cooke basically plays 30-60 and up at Bellagio a few times a week in addition to his RE business in Vegas and his column in Card Player. I consider him one of the best middle limit cash game players around. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Poker authors vs "Good" Poker players, stdioh, 15. Apr 2003 13:35 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I'll reiterate it here. I've never disagreed with anything Roy has ever written. Except for one time when we was talking about A6-suited and I mistakenly thought that he was talking about A6-offsuit - but once I knew what he was talking about I agreed with him :) | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Poker authors vs "Good" Poker players, timmer, 15. Apr 2003 14:38 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| HE is also one hell of a good guy. I have known Mr Cooke for a few years and have made tens of thousands from his advice. Heck just yesterday he did a favor for me that if comes to fruition (highly likely) will save me close to 1900 bucks. Cooke & Co. Have been guests at my home quite a few times and will be warmly welcomed anytime and every time. Roy is well respected among the relatively small world of Las Vegas poker players. And could play my money anytime. on 15. Apr 2003 13:33 shorn wrote: > I totally agree on the comment here about TJ and Tom's book. Great, great stuff from two > of the top top NL and PL players in the world. > > Also, Roy Cooke basically plays 30-60 and up at Bellagio a few times a week in addition > to his RE business in Vegas and his column in Card Player. I consider him one of the best > middle limit cash game players around. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Poker authors vs "Good" Poker players, stdioh, 16. Apr 2003 08:18 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Wow. That's one hell of an endorsement. I have this much to say. I don't know Roy personally, but when I eventually head my ass down to Vegas he's going to be on the short list of people I'd love to take out for steaks. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network |
|