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Server Time: 12/2/2008 6:30:13 PM PACIFIC |
 Short Handed Omaha 8, Jeffrey Biship, 13. Apr 2003 11:21 | ||
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| Anyone have any tips on playing Omaha 8 shorthanded (4 or less players)? I just lost 49 big bets in an hour and a half playing 3-4 handed O8. I guess that's what I get for trying to keep the game going. I guess I thought my shorthanded HE skills would translate to O8. I should have known better, I guess. I keep typing and deleting questions and observations, but I'm so punch drunk, I just can't formulate a thought. What I found frustrating was playing so many heads up pots (and "losing" to the rake when we inevitably split the pot); building big pots on great draws only to lose to weak made hands like bottom two pair or less; and the fact that the "average winning hand" seemed to fluctuate so greatly from hand to hand but the action remained pretty constant, making it difficult to know where you were at. Jeff | ||
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| Re: Short Handed Omaha 8, 4 POKER, 13. Apr 2003 15:29 | ||
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| Hey Jeff, Keep in mind that playing in an Omaha 8 game with four players or less is played much differently then a full game. First of all, your blinds are going to be coming around every other hand practically (something to think about first before you start playing). Second, whenever you are drawing to the low side of the board, you'll almost always need many callers preflop to make the most value out of that low draw. Low hands get quartered frequently in Omaha and when you don't have enough players involved with you when you do make the low, if you happened to get quartered you will lose a lot of money. (remember what I stated on a previous post- If you get quartered in a hand and there are not at least 4 players or more involved, you will lose money.) Having said that, You can see how playing in a very short game can change the type of hands that you are customed to playing. Your high hands will go up in value more, and you will have to be more aggressive as to try to knock out the remaining players and take that hand heads up. Your position will become more of a factor now, and you should try to get that position against your weaker opponents. Keep in mind, that when you play in a short game there will not be as many cinch hands out there( the nuts). So you'll have to be a little more liberal with raising hands that you would normally throw away in a full Omaha game. Example, A 5 10 J unsuited can be a raising hand, because you won't be bucking heads with too many other players. And you will have to play and raise these types of holdings because the game is short. You can't stick around and wait for A2, A23 etc., all the time, you will be eaten up by the blinds before you know it. You must be able to adjust to that type of play and playing hands that you would normally look at as "JUNK". It really depends If you feel comfortable playing in a game that is so short. Keep in mind, when you do go back to playing in your full, 10 handed Omaha game, you must go right back to playing strong hands where all 4 cards work together. It's a hard adjustment sometimes but you must be able to adjust whether you're playing in a ring game or in a short handed game. (IMO Jeff,) playing in a game where your blinds come up every other hand is not a position that I want to be in. But some people love shorthanded games and are quite experienced with that style of play. (Make sure if you do play in a short handed game that the other players involved are not short handed experts- they will have an edge over you, trust me! Your game selection is very, very important, so try to ALWAYS sit in a game where you feel comfortable and with having a slight edge. Don't worry about trying to keep a game together, the game will be there tomorrow-You can bet on it! Good Luck 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Short Handed Omaha 8, noiseboy, 14. Apr 2003 09:32 | ||
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| Good post, I just took up Omaha 8, and have been doing pretty well so far, except when the table gets short handed. | ||
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| Re: Short Handed Omaha 8, 4 POKER, 14. Apr 2003 14:15 | ||
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| on 14. Apr 2003 09:32 noiseboy wrote: > Good post, I just took up Omaha 8, and have been doing pretty well so far, except when the > table gets short handed. Great to hear, Omaha is a great game, it's lots of fun and it was the easiest game for me to build my bankroll on. If you play the game smart your fluctuations will be very small. I feel the way you do, I would still rather play in a full game. I have a lot of patience so I am willing to wait around for a premium hand... Can't always do that in a short game. good luck, 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Short Handed Omaha 8, noiseboy, 14. Apr 2003 15:01 | ||
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| Yes, good point, O8 is really good if you are building up a bankroll. I recently just took a downswing in Hold'em, weeks without decent cards, and when I did get them they got drawn out. Now I'm trying to build it back up, and O8 has been great for that. I've only just started playing, so I don't know statistically how I'm doing, but I've come out ahead 8 out of 10 sessions. It seems like the schooling effect of Hold'em doesn't really apply in O8, making it much less risky. I don't really know that much yet, but you can beat the snot out of bad players just by sticking to good starting hands, and not playing flops that don't hit you hard. I'll get some hand histories here pretty soon so you guys can help me! Thanks | ||
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| Re: Short Handed Omaha 8, stdioh, 15. Apr 2003 09:43 | ||
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| Indeed, because it is a game of the nuts and second nuts, schooling nolonger applies. You have players shooting implicit collusion and all it does is hurt them badly. | ||
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| Re: Short Handed Omaha 8, Jeffrey Biship, 17. Apr 2003 09:33 | ||
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| 4 POKER, Thanks for initiating a good discussion of the topic. Out of the three forums to which I posted this question, UPF was the longest thread by far. Jeff | ||
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| Re: Short Handed Omaha 8, 4 POKER, 17. Apr 2003 09:38 | ||
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| on 17. Apr 2003 09:33 Jeffrey Biship wrote: > 4 POKER, > > Thanks for initiating a good discussion of the topic. Out of the three forums to which I > posted this question, UPF was the longest thread by far. > > Jeff ...My pleasure, I hope it was helpful to you. We can all learn alot from each other. 4 POKER Thanks for taking the time to reply with such | ||
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| Re: Short Handed Omaha 8, stdioh, 14. Apr 2003 10:21 | ||
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| First off, O8 is so different from Hold'em, but some things remain constant. When the blinds are whipping around you need to play more hands and thus is stops being a game of the nuts and the second nuts. All of a sudden, a good Omaha8 hand is a hand with any low and a draw to the nuts. Something like 4578 is pretty junky at a full table and worth throwing away almost all the time, but in a shorthanded game you have a decent shot of winning a low with it and if you make a straight it doesn't necessarilly have to be the nut straight to take the high. Likewise, suited cards gain value at the shorthanded table. At a full table, suiting two of the cards in your hand means precisely dick, unless one of them in a king or an ace, but in a shorthanded game, low flushes often win the high, so suddenly a hand like 8899 double suited has gone from being a total pig to something very playable. Lastly, when you're in any shorthanded game, you have to expect it to be swingier than a full game, so big losses happen and all you can do about them is shrug and keep playing. Just make sure that you're a much better player than your opponents and you'll be paid off really well. | ||
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| Re: Short Handed Omaha 8, 4 POKER, 14. Apr 2003 22:15 | ||
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| on 14. Apr 2003 10:21 stdioh wrote: > First off, O8 is so different from Hold'em, but some things remain constant. When the > blinds are whipping around you need to play more hands and thus is stops being a game > of the nuts and the second nuts. All of a sudden, a good Omaha8 hand is a hand with > any low and a draw to the nuts. Something like 4578 is pretty junky at a full table > and worth throwing away almost all the time, but in a shorthanded game you have a > decent shot of winning a low with it and if you make a straight it doesn't > necessarilly have to be the nut straight to take the high. > > Likewise, suited cards gain value at the shorthanded table. At a full table, suiting > two of the cards in your hand means precisely dick, unless one of them in a king or > an ace, but in a shorthanded game, low flushes often win the high, so suddenly a hand > like 8899 double suited has gone from being a total pig to something very playable. > > Lastly, when you're in any shorthanded game, you have to expect it to be swingier > than a full game, so big losses happen and all you can do about them is shrug and > keep playing. Just make sure that you're a much better player than your opponents and > you'll be paid off really well. Sorry, Even though several of your comments are correct, the two examples that you gave, the 4,5,7,8 and the 8899 double suited are still trash hands and should not be played in Omaha8 even if the game is shorthanded. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Short Handed Omaha 8, stdioh, 15. Apr 2003 09:45 | ||
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| I'm not going to argue with you about that...I'm not a good Omaha8 player, period. I think that 8899 double suited is still playable shorthanded. 4578, not so much...but in shorthanded Omaha, I think that styles can be more varied...you can do ok playing not so tight anymore. Again, I'm going to point out that I am a bad bad omaha player, so I'm going to defer to you on this one and not belabour the point. | ||
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| Re: Short Handed Omaha 8, 4 POKER, 15. Apr 2003 15:23 | ||
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| on 15. Apr 2003 09:45 stdioh wrote: > I'm not going to argue with you about that...I'm not a good Omaha8 player, period. I think that > 8899 double suited is still playable shorthanded. 4578, not so much...but in shorthanded Omaha, > I think that styles can be more varied...you can do ok playing not so tight anymore. > > Again, I'm going to point out that I am a bad bad omaha player, so I'm going to defer to you > on this one and not belabour the point. Hi, I understand what you're trying to put across believe me, I do. (and DON'T say that you are a bad, bad omaha player, you just don't have the experience in the game yet, that is all.)Not to mention, a person who is good in mathematics, like yourself, would be a great Omaha player, IMO. I just want to give you an example of the starting hand 8899 double suited in short handed play. #1. you can not make a low - you just took 50% of your chances away from making money. #2. If you make a straight with this hand and it's the bottom end, 5-6-7, then you just surrendered 50% of your share to a low hand. #3. If you make the nut straight on the flop, 7-10-J, then you must sweat it out that the next card does not bring a card higher than the J. (you will lose to any higher straight), Q, K , or an ACE #4. If you happen to flop a set, (we'll use the 88 for example), if the board comes up with a low and your set, then you at that time will still be only shooting for half. And keep in mind, if another player flops the low they will be on a total freeroll against your set. (they can't lose, their hand can only improve whether it be to a straight or a flush and you can wind up with none of the pot). If you flop a set and the board flops high(with no low draw out there, then you will most likely be up against a straight already or a hand that probably contains several combinational cards to make a straight.) You also could be up against a higher set and you have no other redraw with the hand, keep that in mind.(except for that lousy flush draw). Yes, I know that I am giving you the worst -case scenerio for your hand and a bad flop can happen to a good hand as well, but... What i'm trying to point out to you is, Why put yourself in that position to start out with? The hand has so few positive expectations, really. That is why I prefer a full game. I don't want to subject myself into playing sub-par starting hands. That being said, Yes you must play hands that are a little weaker when the game is short, But, You also MUST be able to realize what hands are still not worth playing. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Short Handed Omaha 8, stdioh, 16. Apr 2003 08:16 | ||
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| I agree with absolutely everything you said there and that is precisely why this hand is unplayable in a full game. That said, I think that there are times in a shorthanded (like 3 or 4 players) game where this is playable because there is often no qualifying low hand even when a low hits the board, because there are fewer high flush draws out there, because because because. And even with all the becauses, it is *still* a weak holding. We're really quibbling over a non-issue here. Just *how* playable a dirty little bad hand is. I think that there is a time and a place for it, but that such times are few and far between, is all. It's all good. And indeed, my omaha experience is most limited. | ||
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