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Server Time: 12/2/2008 6:32:43 PM PACIFIC |
 Re: Book recommendations for NL, Wren, 11. Apr 2003 12:11 | ||
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| I'm of the opinion that one cannot learn how to play NLH well by reading a book, or many books for that matter, because it is so very much a game of reading one's opponents. Due to this, two players can play quite differently from one another and both be very excellent no limit players. For example, Doyle Brunson and TJ Cloutier. Brunson LOVES to play small suited connectors (for a small price) early on in a NL tournament, and Cloutier will throw them away without a moment's thought. Doyle routinely pushes his entire stack in, and Cloutier very infrequently makes all-in moves. Despite these, and many other, differences, both are excellent no limit tournament and cash game players. Again - what it comes down to is reading your opponents. This includes both betting patterns (eg player A loves to move his stack in on a nut draw, whereas player B tends to check & call small bets with this type of hand) and visual tells (eg player C ALWAYS looks up and to the right when he is on a monster). Both of these require careful observation of one's opponents. Mike Caro's Book of Tells is an excellent tool for learning many of the visual tells that players display, but understanding betting patterns will come primarily from experience. All this being said, some of the NLH books in print do contain some useful information. For example, Cloutier and McEvoy's Championship NL and PL Hold'em book contains valuable commentary on avoiding trap hands, the danger of AK (a hand that many players overvalue, and commit way too much money to), etc. etc. Doyle Brunson emphasized the importance of aggression, taking control of the table, making your opponents fear you in his book Super/System. I haven't read the Ciaffone book, but I've heard it contains a lot of interesting ideas, and Ciaffone's writings are always intelligent and well thought-out (albeit occasionally a little controversial). All in all, some of these books can provide some good information to get you started in NL, but they will not benefit you nearly as much as experience, and careful observation. | ||
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| Ugh, Wren, 11. Apr 2003 12:27 | ||
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| Sorry about the double post. Apparently I don't know how to use simple message forum posting controls :o/ | ||
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| Re: Ugh, noiseboy, 11. Apr 2003 14:29 | ||
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| That's cool, I often post replies to entirely unrelated threads on accident. Point well taken about experience, I know there is no substitute for that, but hoping to speed up the process with some heavy duty No Limit reading. I guess you are right about No Limit accomodating more than one correct style, you couldn't think of two more different players than Brunson and Cloutier and they are two of the best. | ||
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| Re: Ugh, 4 POKER, 11. Apr 2003 23:30 | ||
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| on 11. Apr 2003 12:27 Wren wrote: > Sorry about the double post. Apparently I don't know how to use simple message forum > posting controls :o/ Neither do I, don't feel bad !!!! 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Book recommendations for NL, 4 POKER, 12. Apr 2003 00:59 | ||
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| on 11. Apr 2003 12:11 Wren wrote: > I'm of the opinion that one cannot learn how to play NLH well by reading a book, > or many books for that matter, because it is so very much a game of reading > one's opponents. Due to this, two players can play quite differently from one > another and both be very excellent no limit players. For example, Doyle Brunson > and TJ Cloutier. Brunson LOVES to play small suited connectors (for a small > price) early on in a NL tournament, and Cloutier will throw them away without a > moment's thought. Doyle routinely pushes his entire stack in, and Cloutier very > infrequently makes all-in moves. Despite these, and many other, differences, > both are excellent no limit tournament and cash game players. Again - what it > comes down to is reading your opponents. This includes both betting patterns (eg > player A loves to move his stack in on a nut draw, whereas player B tends to > check & call small bets with this type of hand) and visual tells (eg player C > ALWAYS looks up and to the right when he is on a monster). Both of these require > careful observation of one's opponents. Mike Caro's Book of Tells is an > excellent tool for learning many of the visual tells that players display, but > understanding betting patterns will come primarily from experience. > > All this being said, some of the NLH books in print do contain some useful > information. For example, Cloutier and McEvoy's Championship NL and PL Hold'em > book contains valuable commentary on avoiding trap hands, the danger of AK (a > hand that many players overvalue, and commit way too much money to), etc. etc. > Doyle Brunson emphasized the importance of aggression, taking control of the > table, making your opponents fear you in his book Super/System. I haven't read > the Ciaffone book, but I've heard it contains a lot of interesting ideas, and > Ciaffone's writings are always intelligent and well thought-out (albeit > occasionally a little controversial). All in all, some of these books can > provide some good information to get you started in NL, but they will not > benefit you nearly as much as experience, and careful observation. *********************** I agree, NL hold-em is definitely a game where there's so much more phsycological aspects to it then anything else. The game IMO, is played from your heart, gut, and getting a tremendous read on the other players. That in which comes naturally to many of your top notch players and by many years of experience. Books are helpful, agreed, but I think when it comes to NL/PL games, your natural poker instincts are the best. 4 POKER | ||
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