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Server Time: 12/2/2008 6:13:49 PM PACIFIC |
 Book recommendations for NL, noiseboy, 11. Apr 2003 10:56 | ||
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| No limit players, what one book helped you the most when you were first starting out in No Limit hold'em? What about No Limit tournaments? Thanks! | ||
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| Re: Book recommendations for NL, Andrew Wells, 11. Apr 2003 11:05 | ||
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| Brunson's. | ||
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| Re: Book recommendations for NL, noiseboy, 11. Apr 2003 11:09 | ||
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| Did you start out with a super aggressive style, like him, or did you have to work up to that? Thanks for the rec! | ||
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| Re: Book recommendations for NL, Andrew Wells, 11. Apr 2003 11:13 | ||
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| I played low buy-in tourneys to learn. I wasn't afraid to shove all-in because there was always a juicy limit ring game waiting. | ||
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| Re: Book recommendations for NL, Pkrrookie, 11. Apr 2003 11:11 | ||
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| I just finished Pot Limit and No limit poker a little while ago (Stewart Reuban and Bob Ciafonne, please excuse the spelling). While the writing is terrible, there are a lot of really good ideas and concepts in the book. I wish the writers had 1) made the book longer and 2) spent more time on the individual games. The Tourney section is short and really isn't that helpful (there wasn't much in it that you shouln't get from Sklansky's TPFAP). I would also like to know what all of you think. I'm considering ordering TJ' Championship NLHE but its a little expensive (interesting how I hesitate to spend a few extra bucks for a book that could make me much more than the price, wonder why that is). Probably didn't help much, but like to hear other's opinions | ||
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| Re: Book recommendations for NL, shorn, 11. Apr 2003 11:30 | ||
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| I have TJ's and Tom MceVoy's Championship Pot Limit and No Limit holdem book and i found it to be quite good (although I have only read it through once). The most interesting part was that when they had different opinions on how to play a particular hand or a situation, they gave you both ideas so you could compare and contrast styles (the chapter on playing middle pocket pairs comes to mind). Bottom line I think experience is what counts most in these games and the ability to read your opponent (something I am not as good at) is absolutely essential. | ||
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| Re: Book recommendations for NL, Wren, 11. Apr 2003 12:11 | ||
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| I'm of the opinion that one cannot learn how to play NLH well by reading a book, or many books for that matter, because it is so very much a game of reading one's opponents. Due to this, two players can play quite differently from one another and both be very excellent no limit players. For example, Doyle Brunson and TJ Cloutier. Brunson LOVES to play small suited connectors (for a small price) early on in a NL tournament, and Cloutier will throw them away without a moment's thought. Doyle routinely pushes his entire stack in, and Cloutier very infrequently makes all-in moves. Despite these, and many other, differences, both are excellent no limit tournament and cash game players. Again - what it comes down to is reading your opponents. This includes both betting patterns (eg player A loves to move his stack in on a nut draw, whereas player B tends to check & call small bets with this type of hand) and visual tells (eg player C ALWAYS looks up and to the right when he is on a monster). Both of these require careful observation of one's opponents. Mike Caro's Book of Tells is an excellent tool for learning many of the visual tells that players display, but understanding betting patterns will come primarily from experience. All this being said, some of the NLH books in print do contain some useful information. For example, Cloutier and McEvoy's Championship NL and PL Hold'em book contains valuable commentary on avoiding trap hands, the danger of AK (a hand that many players overvalue, and commit way too much money to), etc. etc. Doyle Brunson emphasized the importance of aggression, taking control of the table, making your opponents fear you in his book Super/System. I haven't read the Ciaffone book, but I've heard it contains a lot of interesting ideas, and Ciaffone's writings are always intelligent and well thought-out (albeit occasionally a little controversial). All in all, some of these books can provide some good information to get you started in NL, but they will not benefit you nearly as much as experience, and careful observation. | ||
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| Re: Book recommendations for NL, Mark, 13. Apr 2003 00:08 | ||
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| I just bought super system and i can't tell you how great i think it is. i was playing totallly the opposite of how Doyle suggests. I was tight and really noticed that lately opponents were not paying me off. it has really changed the way i think of NL. I also recognize that opponents i used to think were loose, and would wonder how they win, are probably using the system. Doyle talks about how his system allows you to go on "rushes". I've never gone on rushes before and had my first today, it was awesome. i won 5 good pots in a row, with only 1 decent hand. Even if you don't like the "system" its still very valuable to know what it is. mark | ||
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| Re: Book recommendations for NL, Nathaniel Brous, 13. Apr 2003 08:32 | ||
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| Hey Mark. The "Rush" does exist. Although each hand does occur independently of the other, statistically there will be times when you get a good grouping of cards over a short period of time. You also be able to take advantage of the not so good cards because your opponents are playing less aggressive against someone who appears to be "getting hit by the deck." In addition, your aggressive play will be able to knock out people with marginal hands that are better than yours, thereby increasing the chances of you continuing your streak. That said, I want to bring up an important point that I read in Phillip's Tao Book. Sometimes, a rush might "supposed to have" a few spaces in between wins. A win, win, fold, win, fold, fold, win will still APPEAR to your opponents as an incredible streak and have the SAME effects. Betting/calling a crappy hand when you have position in an unraised pot (just after a win) is not the same as raising/calling with a crappy hand into a raised pot out of position (just after a win). So play your "rushes" yes, but temper them with reason. - Nathaniel Brous | ||
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| Re: Book recommendations for NL, stdioh, 14. Apr 2003 11:23 | ||
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| I think that the idea of Supersystem is that you work to manufacture rushes. You don't need to be dealt the winning cards more than your fair share to get a rush going. Mostly you need to be in control of the table and lead your opponents around by the nose - make them pay you when you have the cards and take down the pot when you don't. Of coruse, like most things in life, this is easier said than done. | ||
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| Re: Book recommendations for NL, Nathaniel Brous, 14. Apr 2003 13:06 | ||
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| on 14. Apr 2003 11:23 stdioh wrote: > I think that the idea of Supersystem is that you work to manufacture rushes. You don't need to be dealt the winning cards more than your fair share to get a rush going. Mostly you need to be in control of the table and lead your opponents around by the nose - make them pay you when you have the cards and take down the pot when you don't. Of course, like most things in life, this is easier said than done. Too, true stdioh. What I am bringing up is that "rushes" by definition have an ending point and you gain nothing by manhandling a table and then giving everything you have earned to the big stack that was just waiting in the weeds for you. So use your momentum yes, but do so without blinders on. Lady luck is fickle, especially in No Limit. - Nathaniel Brous | ||
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| Re: Book recommendations for NL, stdioh, 14. Apr 2003 14:23 | ||
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| I couldn't agree more. | ||
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| Re: Book recommendations for NL, Mark, 15. Apr 2003 09:41 | ||
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| > Too, true stdioh. What I am bringing up is that "rushes" by definition have an ending point and you > gain nothing by manhandling a table and then giving everything you have earned to the big stack that was > just waiting in the weeds for you. So use your momentum yes, but do so without blinders on. Lady luck I don't agree. What Brunson is teaching is that its okay to give some of you winnings back, and in some cases all of your winnings back, because of the image you create. Brunson says that he calls lots of pots with the worst hand and will keep on doing it. (he doesn't just throw big bets away though) This image allows you to take monster pots when you do have a great hand and someone else has a good hand. Back to the original point. it is about manufacturing rushes when you own the table. Opponents get pissed off that you do it and start playing badly and trying to take shots at you. this leads to even more money. mark | ||
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| Re: Book recommendations for NL, Mark, 15. Apr 2003 09:35 | ||
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| exactly | ||
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