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Server Time: 2/13/2012 11:27:52 AM PACIFIC |
 super system, magicurt, 5. Apr 2003 12:03 | ||
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| I am fairly new to poker( a couple of years of occasional play at Miss. casino).I rarely loose and rarely win much. I am intereste in improving. I bought Brunson's Super System. It was completely revolutionary to me in a lot of concepts. Very in deapth and took a few reading to absorb many of the concepts. My question is "Are many/some of the ideas in super system now outdated? I plan on taking my 1st trip to Vegas this month and will play low limit poker. Hold'em mostly. I can beat the daylights oout of a few home computer games of various levels. I would like to know how I stack up against low level in Vegas. Obviously I want to get in the easiest most tourist ridden game available. I don't want to go to compare myself to other players. I want to win. Any advice on any of the above? Thanks magicurt | ||
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| Re: super system, NiceFella, 5. Apr 2003 13:04 | ||
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| Hehe, I can't help but laugh when I read that you want "the easiest most tourist ridden game available." That's the spirit! How can I resist telling you my secrets now? Personally I find the low-limit Vegas games to be easier than the games at home here in Washington state. My local cardrooms seem to be full of a lot of hard-core regulars, whereas the Vegas games seemed to be more light-hearted and filled with more part-time players. Straightforward, un-tricky low-limit play as documented in all the common poker books seems to work just fine in this environment. For my money, the lowest hanging fruit in the Vegas poker jungle is at the Monte Carlo. I feel dirty when I play there. :-) The Monte Carlo runs just a few tables, usually just two 1-4 stud games and two 4/8 holdem games with 1 and 2 dollar blinds. Because they have only a few tables, you may have to wait around a while to get into a game. But talk about loose action. The 2 dollar big blind traps the unwary beginners into a mediocre hand, and makes it very cheap for the tight player to sit at the table and fold, fold, fold. They take the rake out in quarters and the standard toke is just fifty cents. It's heaven for the soulless bottom-feeder. The Monte Carlo seems to specialize in beginning players. They actually give Hold'em lessons every day. Literally every time I have played there, someone at the table was playing casino poker for the very first time. You've got to have some patience. The players are the very definition of loose and clueless. They play out of turn, they bet the wrong amount, they don't realize they have a straight. Laughter and cameraderie take precedence over a quick game. You will get sucked out on. And you will get two callers when you raise the river with a full house. Oh, I feel guilty just thinking about playing in this game. After all, they're just learning how to play... There are of course always a few players who know what they are doing. Because the room is small the game changes from day to day. So your mileage may vary. And now I've let the secret out.... Be careful about playing in the afternoons. That's when the retired regulars who can't smoke at the Mirage come to play. They're a tight group. Not terribly crafty, but not real fun to play with. I also enjoy playing at the Manadalay Bay. Very clean, classy, and relatively quiet. If memory serves me, the Mandalay hosts a small tournament every day at 10am for $25. Cheap thrills. The Mirage is always good, the players don't seem to be as tough as they once seemed, but the Mirage is a little crowded and noisy for my taste. It is a non-smoking cardroom though, which for me is a plus. Good luck! Have Fun! NiceFella | ||
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| Re: super system, magicurt, 5. Apr 2003 19:19 | ||
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| wow, thanks that helps. We all learned a few lessons learning and now I know the truth I feel obligated to help my fellow man learn some lessons that they can value for a long time at the Monte Carlo. Thanks magicurt | ||
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| Re: super system, stdioh, 7. Apr 2003 09:32 | ||
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| Just don't go educating the tables. on 5. Apr 2003 19:19 magicurt wrote: > wow, thanks that helps. We all learned a few lessons learning and now I know the truth I > feel obligated to help my fellow man learn some lessons that they can value for a long > time at the Monte Carlo. > Thanks > > magicurt | ||
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| Re: super system, john ray, 5. Apr 2003 18:05 | ||
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| App. majicurt. The advice i get from these guys on the play of hands is invaluable, but, your comment on not proving yourself just win is exactly what i think most of us low limiters forget. The better players are looking for just that situation when EGO overcomes our ABILITY. good post | ||
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| Re: super system, magicurt, 5. Apr 2003 19:22 | ||
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| Thanks, I hope I can get some value experience and a little cash to pay for the trip. So you feel the general playing concepts are as sound today as when they were written? At least at a lower end serious player? Thanks Magicurt | ||
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| Re: super system, ReddTrain, 6. Apr 2003 07:12 | ||
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| > Obviously I want to get in the easiest most tourist ridden game available. I > don't want to go to compare myself to other players. I want to win. If you're going to Vegas to win, have a seat in the 2-4 HE game at Palace Station. Anyone who has read a book on poker and can apply the concepts a quarter of the time has a license to print money in that game. However, I'm a little confused about your goal behind reading Super/System. The games described are much higher-limit and composed of much better players. If your goal is to "improve your game", then Doyle's book is a _great_ place to start. If your goal is to beat the minnows out of more of their bankroll, you'll be better-served reading something like Lee Jones' _Winning Low-Limit Hold'Em_ or Lou Krieger's book (the name of which escapes me at the moment). Hope this helps, Big John | ||
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| Re: super system, magicurt, 6. Apr 2003 19:34 | ||
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| Great advice, thanks! My imediate goal is to win (well I guess my long term goal is to win also. About 3 years ago I bought ken warren's book on HE. I also bought Mike Caro's body language. I starts to drive 2hrs to play in Mississippi. I have done o.k. but feel like I am missing my potential winnings by not improving my game. It seemed like Super System came up everywhere I looked. So I bought it. It it really something. I know much of it is inapropropriate (now I know why I like poker and not speeling bee's) for most games I will be invovled in any time soon. I have been focusing on what will be relavent but understanding the big picture always helps. I think there will be a day I will be in the bigger games. The time for that is much experience down the road. I wondered how much strategy and play had changed since the writing of super system (25 years ago) and if in Vegas simple machanical but thought out play would work in low limit. I also seem to do quite well reading folks and there hands. It still amazes me how after a few hours of play I can seem to almost see through the backs of the cards regularly. Thanks, magicurt | ||
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| Re: super system, 4 POKER, 7. Apr 2003 20:30 | ||
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| Super System by Doyle Brunson is one of the best books out there today, good choice. There are alot of pro's in Vegas, even at the lower limits, but if you play a solid game of hold-em and you are not out to prove anything by trying to outplay "the Vegas pro's", I think you will do fine. There is another book you might enjoy by Bob Ciaffone. It is called, Middle limit hold-em poker. Even if you learn one or two things, you have accomplished alot. Keep reading, we are never too good to stop learning. I have been playing poker professionally for ten years and I still pick up a book every now and then; it keeps you sharp!! GOOD LUCK, 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: super system, magicurt, 7. Apr 2003 20:56 | ||
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| Great, thanks I have been contemplateing my next addition to my library. I do beleive you can ALWAYS learn more, plus learning stimulates those forgotten plays and concepts you forgot from times past. You wouldn't happen to be from vegas or will be out there April 20-24th? I would love to hook up with someone who can play while I am there. Thanks, Magicurt | ||
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| Re: super system, 4 POKER, 8. Apr 2003 18:53 | ||
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| HEY MAGICURT, HOW ARE YA? I AM NOT FROM VEGAS, I'M FROM ATLANTIC CITY. HOWEVER I WILL BE IN VEGAS FOR THE ENTIRE SUMMER. AND YES, I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY. IT IS TRUE THAT BY PICKING UP A BOOK WILL DEFINITELY REFRESH YOUR MEMORY ABOUT FORGOTTEN PLAYS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. I HAVE BEEN PLAYING POKER, AND RIGHT NOW I'M FOCUSING ON OMAHA HI-LOW( HAVE BEEN FOR THE PAST 6 YEARS) AND I TELL YA, I STILL PICK UP MY RAY ZEE BOOK EVERY NOW AND THEN AND IT HELPS!! EVEN IF YOU MAY NOT AGREE WITH ALL OF SOMEBODY'S OPINIONS AND OR VIEWS ON A SUBJECT, IT GETS YOU TO THINK... AND WHEN WE THINK, THEN WE ARE LEARNING!! I WISH YOU ALL THE BEST IN VEGAS- KNOCK 'EM DEAD!!! 4 POKER P.S. IF YOU HAVE SOME BOOKS THAT YOU HAVE FOUND TO BE HELPFUL TO YOU, I'D LOVE TO HEAR WHICH ONES. THANKS. | ||
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| Re: super system, magicurt, 13. Apr 2003 23:27 | ||
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| sorry it took so long to reply, i am a magician and have been busy working on a fall show. Great, I will be at circus circus from april 20(easter Sun.)-April 23 Wed. we leave thurs. morning. I would love to meet if it is convienient anytime. I can go 24hrs a day(often do) Books that helped actually are in combination w/ one anotherbecause of there perspectives; Ken Warren's Texas Hold'em Poker, Edwin Silberstang"s winning Poker and Brunson's Super System(hense my original Question). The 1st two books give a good foundation to fundamental poker and mechanical hold'em but Brunson's book show's a completely different side to poker. I believe that the basics are what i'll need but the aggressive style of power poker to wi at low limit. I just wanted toget an idea how low limit is played in Vegas and how many players the super system concepts would help me to beat.(I can see why I am not an English Proffesor). I have an itersest in really understanding the game of poker, my poker game and the general play of poker. I want to improve and get to building a bankroll for bigger and better things. Any info would be great. Meeting face to face would be a great help and maybe I could show you a few world-class card tricks to interest you. My e-mail is magicurt@ juno.com If you e-mail me I can send you my Phone # or you could tell me how to find you. Thanks Magicurt | ||
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| Re: super system, 4 POKER, 14. Apr 2003 00:57 | ||
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| On 13. Apr 2003 23:27 magicurt wrote: > sorry it took so long to reply, I am a magician and have been busy working on a fall show. > > Great, I will be at circus circus from April 20(Easter Sun.)-April 23 Wed. We leave thurs. Morning. > I would love to meet if it is convenient anytime. I can go 24hrs a day(often do) > > Books that helped actually are in combination w/ one anthropogenic of there perspectives; Ken > warrens Texas Hold'em Poker, Edwin Silberstang"s winning Poker and Brunson's Super System(hence my > original Question). The 1st two books give a good foundation to fundamental poker and mechanical > hold'em but Brunson's book shows a completely different side to poker. > I believe that the basics are what I'll need but the aggressive style of power poker to wi at low > limit. I just wanted toget an idea how low limit is played in Vegas and how many players the super > system concepts would help me to beat.(I can see why I am not an English professor). > I have an itersest in really understanding the game of poker, my poker game and the general play of > poker. I want to improve and get to building a bankroll for bigger and better things. > > Any info would be great. Meeting face to face would be a great help and maybe I could show you a > few world-class card tricks to interest you. > > My e-mail is magicurt@ juno.com > If you e-mail me I can send you my Phone # or you could tell me how to find you. > > Thanks > > Magicurt Hey, Wow, you're a Magician?... That's really cool! I just read your post. I have not read the first two books you had mentioned. I'm sure they have been a help to you. I will be in Vegas, however, unfortunately, I will not arrive there 'til the end of May. I'll be driving out there leaving from N.J. In the beginning of May but by the time we make all those stops that we made last year, our arrival date will bring us there towards the end of the month. If you do decide to extend your visit, I will be at the Bellagio. (you can look for me in the Omaha 8 section)! I don't play too much hold-em when I'm out west because I play so much of it while I am at home In Atlantic City. However, I have played in the game about 30 or 40 times (6-12 thru 15-30), and felt that the caliber of players were much better. Sure you'll get the "tourists" who will make the game worthwhile, but I'd scope all the games out first before I chose one to sit down in. If you have any experience in Omaha 8, The Orleans runs a big tournament in July. They spread mostly Omaha, Stud 8, and Hold-em and the games are unbelievable!! People flock here from all over the country and they just want to gamble, gamble, gamble!! The games go around the clock 24-7, and they have the side games in the same room as the tournament (It's one giant ballroom-type room). So there's always something going on. Grant it The Orleans pales in comparison to the Bellagio as far as beauty and all that good stuff, but the games are so much better, looser, etc., then at the "B". Sometime in June I will be heading out to California for a couple of weeks. Now that's the place where you should go!! They have the best poker games and selections than any other casino I have ever been to!! All the time, All year round. Their hold-em games are great also. Every limit imaginable! If you think that you might be in Vegas at the time when I will be there... Let me know. I will send you my E-Mail address, ok? 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: super system, magicurt, 14. Apr 2003 02:03 | ||
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| I will not be there then. There is a small chance i may come to Atlantic City in the fall. A business friend of mine has a convention he has to attend(insurance). He said it'ld be cool if my wife and I tag w/ him and his. I'm thinkin' I could be ready for more good action and I love the thought of a bunch of cocky , successfull insurance guys with a pocket full of cash possably ready for a fun game back in someones suite. If I put it togather i'll let you know. I've read some of your other post to questions. You are a great resource for new players like myself. I've been playing for a few years, reading steadily(books and on-line) playing some live games, playing software games and some internet play $ games. I just need more experience. I am confident I can win. I can stick to my guns, make good desision and read people well. (I forgot to mention i've read Caro's poker tells book many times) as well as how to read people like a book(non-poker book) not to mention as a magician I am trained how to read people as well as how to direct their attention and their responses. Anyway, I was wondering if you thought on-line low limit was a good starting place to build bankroll? Maybe 25/50 cent and $1-2 games at first. You don't get people tells but in the games I watch many people seem to be pretty predictable. I have 100s of other Questions but will stop for now. I hope you don't mind the inquisition. If I am too lengthly or out of line for this forum just let me know Thanks, Magicurt | ||
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| Re: super system, 4 POKER, 14. Apr 2003 06:54 | ||
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| on 14. Apr 2003 02:03 magicurt wrote: > I will not be there then. There is a small chance i may come to Atlantic City in the fall. A business friend > of mine has a convention he has to attend(insurance). He said it'ld be cool if my wife and I tag w/ him and > his. > I'm thinkin' I could be ready for more good action and I love the thought of a bunch of cocky , successfull > insurance guys with a pocket full of cash possably ready for a fun game back in someones suite. > > If I put it togather i'll let you know. > I've read some of your other post to questions. You are a great resource for new players like myself. I've > been playing for a few years, reading steadily(books and on-line) playing some live games, playing software > games and some internet play $ games. I just need more experience. > I am confident I can win. I can stick to my guns, make good desision and read people well. (I forgot to > mention i've read Caro's poker tells book many times) as well as how to read people like a book(non-poker > book) not to mention as a magician I am trained how to read people as well as how to direct their attention > and their responses. > > Anyway, I was wondering if you thought on-line low limit was a good starting place to build bankroll? Maybe > 25/50 cent and $1-2 games at first. You don't get people tells but in the games I watch many people seem to be > pretty predictable. > > I have 100s of other Questions but will stop for now. I hope you don't mind the inquisition. If I am too > lengthly or out of line for this forum just let me know > > Thanks, > > Magicurt Hey, I don't mind the questions or responses at all, that is why I am here. I enjoy reading others as well. It's too bad that you're not going to be in Vegas at that time. I will be back in Atlantic City by the Fall so If you plan on heading out here that would be great. I'm not sure where you live? I like how you are able to tie in being a magician with reading other opponents and how to direct their attention and responses... very tricky!!! (ha ha). Depending on the size of your poker bankroll will tell you what limits might be best for you to start in. There's nothing wrong with starting out at the very low limits, and when your bankroll gets a little bigger then you should move up to $1-2, then 2-4, and so on. However, I don't like to play too high a limit on-line. $3-6 and 5-10 are high enough for me because you are playing so many more hands that when you do win, the money seems to grow that much faster. The downside to that however, the losses tend to add up faster as well. So I try to keep myself balanced to where if my average wins per session are $80-100, then I'll never allow myself to lose more than that in any one session as well. Just start out where you feel comfortable and hopefully you'll be able to play at a limit just a little higher then 5O cents- $1.00. That limit seems to be just a little too low to make a decent enough profit after taking the max rake--- But i never started at that low a limit so maybe I'm wrong here I'm not sure. Hopefully some other's will post their opinions who also play at those limits and they'll be able to give you a more accurate figure. Don't be that concerned on picking up tells, there are little boxes underneath each player where it allows you to jot down important info on that person and I find that feature to be quite helpful. After a while, you won't even need to click on to certain player's notes, You will have played with them enough of times to know exactly what style of player they are. Good hearing your reply, Thank You, 4 POKER:) | ||
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