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Server Time: 11/21/2008 5:20:20 AM PACIFIC |
 WPT- tonight's play, Easy E, 2. Apr 2003 20:39 | ||
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| Is it just me, or did Kathy REALLY overplay her big slick? IIJM, or did Chris really have a bad fold with the KJc on the button, early on when it was only the blinds left? | ||
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| Re: WPT- tonight's play, gary ford, 2. Apr 2003 23:10 | ||
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| on 2. Apr 2003 20:39 Easy E wrote: > Is it just me, or did Kathy REALLY overplay her big slick? > > IIJM, or did Chris really have a bad fold with the KJc on the button, early on > when it was only the blinds left? | ||
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| Re: WPT- tonight's play, gary ford, 2. Apr 2003 23:21 | ||
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| Kathy played the hand like she wanted to get off the TV show ---quick!! Which was a shame and a setback for establishing the legitimacy of world class women poker players. The real benefit of this show to the poker community is to bring the game to the recreational player and expand the poker playing universe. Over time, seeing world class players make blunders on TV will take some of the mystique out of top level poker. The myth is that only a select few can win at that level. So far, the truth is otherwise, and that will encourage more and more players to try and reach that level. This can only benefit poker and poker players at all skill levels. | ||
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| Re: WPT- tonight's play, Paul Stine, 3. Apr 2003 07:18 | ||
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| on 2. Apr 2003 20:39 Easy E wrote: > Is it just me, or did Kathy REALLY overplay her big slick? I still need to review the tape, but I thought she played it poorly. Was Chris in the blind with QQ? I think the sequence went like this: Kathy raises Chris reraises from the BB Kathy moves all in Chris calls to cover her. Kathy doesn't improve. Kathy leaves. The show starts with six handed play (on day 5). Generally, final table play starts with 9, so KL, and the others there on day 5, had played at the same table at least as long as it took to eliminate numbers 9, 8 and 7. Consequently, we susptect that Kathy was not entirely uneducated about her opponent. So, why did Kathy move-in against a player who, at least on the last day of the tourney, had shown to be fairly conservative and then had shown strength be re-raising from the blind? Did Chris radically change gears between days 4 and 5 and by so doing create a kink in Kathy's read of him? Maybe Kathy thought that Chris was conservative enough that he would lay down anything but aces to the third raise. In any case, it looked like a classic mistake of overplaying a coin-flip hand into a person at the table who can eliminate you; a bigger stack. Paul Stine College Station, TX > IIJM, or did Chris really have a bad fold with the KJc on the button, early on > when it was only the blinds left? | ||
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| Re: WPT- tonight's play, Easy E, 3. Apr 2003 08:14 | ||
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| I'm not sure, but I think that the final table only STARTS with 6 players. Now, they're probably at one table with 9-10 opponents before the final table, so that may have had some impact on Kathy's move (maybe Mike, if he reads my review above, can comment on that) | ||
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| Re: WPT- tonight's play, Paul Stine, 3. Apr 2003 14:23 | ||
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| on 3. Apr 2003 08:14 Easy E wrote: > I'm not sure, but I think that the final table only STARTS with 6 players. Now, they're > probably at one table with 9-10 opponents before the final table, so that may have had > some impact on Kathy's move (maybe Mike, if he reads my review above, can comment on that) > I guess we are going to have to develop some new terminology ... Old Term: Final Table - the particpants at the last table active in a tournament New Term: TV Table - the participants at the last active table in a tournament who also make it into the broadcast. Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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| I like it!, Easy E, 3. Apr 2003 16:27 | ||
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| n/m | ||
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| Re: WPT- tonight's play, timmer, 3. Apr 2003 11:14 | ||
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| DS talked about this in the seminar last monday. he stated AKs or os is a great hand to move all in with . It is a bad hand to call all in with. | ||
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| Re: WPT- tonight's play, Tim C, 3. Apr 2003 20:57 | ||
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| I don't realy think Kathy's play was a mistake, just bad luck. I thought that most of the players made alot of bad plays. I was expecting better. Maybe next week. Love the show. | ||
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| Re: WPT- tonight's play, shorn, 4. Apr 2003 04:56 | ||
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| on 3. Apr 2003 20:57 Tim C wrote: > I don't realy think Kathy's play was a mistake, just bad luck. I thought that most of > the players made alot of bad plays. I was expecting better. > Maybe next week. Love the show. I don't agree. While I would say that AKo is a good hand to go all-in on and not call all-in, I think it was too early at the final table for her to make that play, especially given her chip position, her opponent (tight) and her position in the hand. I would think this would be one time a call is correct, see the flop, and be able to react to your opponents action (since she would have been last to act). | ||
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| Re: WPT- tonight's play, Tim C, 4. Apr 2003 13:29 | ||
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| If Kathy just calls and an A or K flop she will not get paid off, sure it's a gamble. If she doubles up she has agood chance to win | ||
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| Re: WPT- tonight's play, Josh, 4. Apr 2003 18:19 | ||
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| Kathy's play was horrible, and was proof that luck got her that far in the tourney rather than skill. On the other hand, I like Chris's play very much. I know KJ is a great hand on the button in a short handed situation, however he was in a position where he didn't have to play it. He had a monster chip lead, and as each person gets knocked out, he makes an additional 60-80K. Like T.J. Cloutier said, you only have to knock one person out of the tourney, and thats the second place finisher. Once I seen Chris fold that hand, I realized that he had read T.J.'s book, wish I was there so I could of ran over him. Another thing that was so great about Chris, was the way he changed gears at the end. The whole time hes playing tight, and then when its heads up, baam! all-in with King high. Good Luck! | ||
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| Re: WPT- tonight's play, Nathaniel Brous, 4. Apr 2003 19:59 | ||
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| on 4. Apr 2003 18:19 Josh wrote: > Kathy's play was horrible, and was proof that luck got her that far in the tourney rather than skill. <snip> Horrible? I don't think so. Not her only option. For sure. Was it skill that allowed Chris to catch a seven to out draw Hon's pair of fours? Perhaps you watched the entire event in person. I only watched Kathy play two hands (on TV) and can't pass judgement. I do know it does take a great deal of skill (with luck) to even make a final table in a big event. - Nathaniel Brous | ||
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| Re: WPT- tonight's play, Paul Stine, 5. Apr 2003 08:04 | ||
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| on 4. Apr 2003 18:19 Josh wrote: > Kathy's play was horrible, and was proof that luck got her that far in the tourney > rather than skill. Pretty weak definition of proof. Have you ever player against Kathy? I have. She has plenty of skill. When I first saw the play I didn't like it. After more thought, I can see that it as a valid play with an undesirable result. She was the aggressor; the one moving all in, not calling all in. TJ says, in the book that you reference later, that the third raise is almost always AA. (I think he used the term 'Ivory Snow', 99.9% pure.) So, she made a move and it didn't work; that's poker. The move you never make will is one that will never work. It was also a play that will yield dividends in the future (beyond the tournament in which she made it), because of the wide exposure it has recieved. It might lead anyone who saw it to overplay a weaker holding into her stronger one. > On the other hand, I like Chris's play very much. I know KJ is a > great hand on the button in a short handed situation, however he was in a position > where he didn't have to play it. He had a monster chip lead, and as each person gets > knocked out, he makes an additional 60-80K. Like T.J. Cloutier said, you only have > to knock one person out of the tourney, and thats the second place finisher. Once I > seen Chris fold that hand, I realized that he had read T.J.'s book, wish I was there > so I could of ran over him. Another thing that was so great about Chris, was the way > he changed gears at the end. The whole time hes playing tight, and then when its > heads up, baam! all-in with King high. Good Luck! Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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