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Server Time: 7/30/2010 5:17:45 PM PACIFIC |
 BLUFFING ONLINE, Giocatore, 25. Mar 2003 09:52 | ||
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| Hello everyone. As a player who doesn't have easy access to a card room, I am forced to resort to playing online poker. I am fully aware of the differences between live and online poker. Anyhow, I am very interested to hear from as many of you as possible about bluffing online. It seems to me that due to the "cyber chip phenomenon," which holds that a player is more liable to click "call" rather than psychically tossing a big bet into a pot, it is nearly impossible to bluff when playing online poker. It is because of this that I do not even bother attempting to bluff anymore. Here is a recent example: In a 20/40 full ring game (10-handed). Also important to note is that I had been winning during this particular session, flopping sets left and right with good starting hands and not having to draw out at all. I'm the SB. Everyone folds to player 4 or 5, who raises. Again, everyone folds to me (SB). I had 7-8 spades and figured I would 3-bet considering I was winning, thus trying to deceive the original caller. BB folds, original raiser calls. Flop comes 2-5-10 rainbow. I fire away, he calls. Turn is a Q. I bet, he calls. River is a K. I bet, he calls. I had nothing, he called with A-6 clubs for high card ace. That hand cost me $160, or 4 big bets. How could he possibly call with ace high and that board, taking into account that I 3-bet? Also note that he didn't have as much as a flush draw, that the ace was his only possible out if that was what he was thinking, putting me on a wired KK or lower. It boggles the mind. And because of ridiculous play like this I have given up trying to bluff because people just don't fold, no matter what. Again, I would really like to hear from anyone who considers himself a successful online bluffer or any similar stories, because it seems to me that it is "easier" to bluff live than online. Thank you in advance, and I hope this post generates a decent amout of responses. | ||
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| Re: BLUFFING ONLINE, stdioh, 25. Mar 2003 10:16 | ||
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| You just have to adjust to the climate of the table and the various people you are against. If it is impossible to bluff out your opponents then your table is increadibly strong (I mean non-weak, not solid) and that means that you should play honestly - you'll get paid off when you have a good hand. So play honest and don't pull any crap - anybody who has too high a calling reflex is a bad played and you can punish them and beat the game. | ||
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| Re: BLUFFING ONLINE, Chad, 25. Mar 2003 10:55 | ||
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| Gio, I understand where you are coming from, I have had some incredible calls down to the river myself. Many times being called down with as little as Q high. I think you just have to beware of who you are playing with. If you play at a site like Paradise where your notes on each player can be reviewed instantly, it makes it easier to make a quick bluff decision. If you are playing at a table with people you have never played with before or haven't bothered making notes on them, and can't remember their tendencies, don't bluff. There is something to the theory of just clicking and calling instead of having to grab chips and throw them into the pot. GL and I will see you at the tables. | ||
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| Re: BLUFFING ONLINE, Chad, 25. Mar 2003 11:04 | ||
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| Gio, Don't you also love it when you are first in and raise with AJ suited, All fold to the BB who can't fold because he has a 58 suited. Flop comes KQ5 none of his suit and 2 of yours, he checks you bet, he calls. Turn brings a blank, he checks you bet he calls, and river does not help he checks you bluff and the idiot calls because he has a pair of 5's? I have seen this happen a million times. Gotta love the action though right. Chad | ||
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| Re: BLUFFING ONLINE, Schuster, 25. Mar 2003 11:28 | ||
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| I'm a bit of a beginner compared to most folks here, but I'm doing my best to learn. Here's my thoughts, posted after each relevant piece. > In a 20/40 full ring game (10-handed). Also important to note is that I had > been winning during this particular session, flopping sets left and right with > good starting hands and not having to draw out at all. Hmm... This might be the mathematician in me, but I'll ask the silly question. Why does this matter? I play exclusively at low limits, so part of my confusion is based on my own conjectures. I would have to figure that most of the folks at a 20/40 table would be decent enough to know that winning the past 10 hands doesn't make a difference when the next is dealt out. I realize there's the subconscious part, but is this really so important? >I'm the SB. Everyone > folds to player 4 or 5, who raises. Again, everyone folds to me (SB). I had > 7-8 spades and figured I would 3-bet considering I was winning, thus trying to > deceive the original caller. Hmm... a middle position raise and everyone folds to you... Again, I'm the beginner, but I wouldn't consider myself to be winning holding 7-8 suited. I'd probably toss it into the muck right there. You're on a nice drawing hand, but it's still a drawing hand, and if you're drawing against only one player, the money the pot is paying you doesn't seem worth it if you make your hand. >BB folds, original raiser calls. Flop comes > 2-5-10 rainbow. I fire away, he calls. Call is reasonable here with a board like this. What could you have? If I were your opponent, I'd figure I still had 3 solid outs to the ace and even 3 very shaky outs to the 6. Again, maybe I'm missing something here. I wouldn't figure you to match the 10. It's a pocket pair, high cards, or maybe a set, and odds are, it's the high cards. >Turn is a Q. I bet, he calls. River > is a K. I bet, he calls. I had nothing, he called with A-6 clubs for high card > ace. Ugh. If I were your opponent, I'd have tossed it in as soon as the Q fell. I really don't see why he paid off when the king fell. Just be happy that if he keeps making plays like that, you'll have his chips. | ||
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| Re: BLUFFING ONLINE, 3Kings, 26. Mar 2003 07:28 | ||
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| on 25. Mar 2003 09:52 Giocatore wrote: > Hello everyone. As a player who doesn't have easy access to a card room, I am > forced to resort to playing online poker. I am fully aware of the differences > between live and online poker. Anyhow, I am very interested to hear from as > many of you as possible about bluffing online. It seems to me that due to the > "cyber chip phenomenon," which holds that a player is more liable to click > "call" rather than psychically tossing a big bet into a pot, it is nearly > impossible to bluff when playing online poker. It is because of this that I do > not even bother attempting to bluff anymore. Here is a recent example: > > In a 20/40 full ring game (10-handed). Also important to note is that I had > been winning during this particular session, flopping sets left and right with > good starting hands and not having to draw out at all. I'm the SB. Everyone > folds to player 4 or 5, who raises. Again, everyone folds to me (SB). I had > 7-8 spades and figured I would 3-bet considering I was winning, thus trying to > deceive the original caller. BB folds, original raiser calls. Flop comes > 2-5-10 rainbow. I fire away, he calls. Turn is a Q. I bet, he calls. River > is a K. I bet, he calls. I had nothing, he called with A-6 clubs for high card > ace. That hand cost me $160, or 4 big bets. How could he possibly call with > ace high and that board, taking into account that I 3-bet? Also note that he > didn't have as much as a flush draw, that the ace was his only possible out if > that was what he was thinking, putting me on a wired KK or lower. It boggles > the mind. And because of ridiculous play like this I have given up trying to > bluff because people just don't fold, no matter what. You are asking "How could he possibly call with Ace high?" How could you possibly bet with 7-8s. The 3-bet and the bet on the flop were okay, but when the Q came on the turn and with the fact that he raised in early position before the flop, your bet makes no sense. You are assuming that he is going to fold, he may have AA, or KK and is waiting for the turn to raise you. He may have had AQ. The bet on the river is fine as you now have to have him fold to win. If I was playing you, (I wouldn't have called with A6s in early position) had I called your pre-flop 3-bet, I would have called you down with Ace high just because I figured you would be trying to run over me (i'm talking about this instance where you have been winning a lot, not in a normal situation). As for bluffing, you have to know who you are playing against. There are some players who will fold TT if an Ave hits and there is a bet, while some people will call with 22 all the way to the river no matter what. I would say my bluffs work about 25 % of the time. As I don't always see the other players cardsor there actions, when I think I am bluffing, I may actually have the best hand anyway. However, I only make the bluffs when I think they will when the pot, which is usually when I have position and am checked to or I see the flop with only one or two other players who limped in and there is an A on the flop. > > Again, I would really like to hear from anyone who considers himself a > successful online bluffer or any similar stories, because it seems to me that it > is "easier" to bluff live than online. For people that can handle themselves, bluffing is easier live. Some people, like me, get really nervous on a bluff. No one can see me shaking when I am playing online. Thank you in advance, and I hope this > post generates a decent amout of responses. | ||
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| Re: BLUFFING ONLINE, Dejan Nikitovic, 26. Mar 2003 14:15 | ||
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| First of all what was your image at the table? How many times have you 3 bet a raiser before and what kind of hand did you show down if it came to show down? I like yor 3 bet here providing that raiser is an action player and not a rock The flop here was bad for you could lead at it but if you get called you must shut down its just too risky. In this case I would check the flop representing big connectors, since that is probablly what he thinks I have and then hope for a big card on turn and then bet or if he bet flop go for a check raise If I was the original raisor with flop like this and you leading at it I would of raised in this spot to see how good your hand really is. Just my 2 cents, hope this helps and gives you another angle also, for bluffing on-line I like to have a position on my opponets because raise always speaks louder than a bet, I would also use raise any button if there is no players in between to make it look more force full. Dejan Nikitovic | ||
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