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Server Time: 11/21/2008 12:33:10 AM PACIFIC |
 77 middle position 20-40, TOM WAGGONER, 19. Mar 2003 17:31 | ||
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| This is a hand from a recent tight passive 20-40 game. I called as the first one in from middle position with two sevens. It was folded too the button who was a solid pro, and he raised, only the BB and I called. The flop was 846 all clubs. I held the 7 of clubs. I figured the button for either AK or a big pair. The BB led out at the pot, and he seemed to be making a lot of flop bets and folding on later streets. I called, not really knowing where I was in the hand. The button raised, and we both called. The turn was another eight, and the BB bets out again, so I figured it's now or never and raise and they both fold. The button told the BB that he had kings with the club and thought I had an eight. I believe I played this hand wrong, but got the right results due to the eight pairing and a risky raise. Any comments appreciated | ||
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| Re: 77 middle position 20-40, Andrew Wells, 19. Mar 2003 22:00 | ||
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| That's an interesting fold from the button if he really had KcKx getting over 4.5:1 to catch a king or a club which may or may not be good. I don't think I would have been so quick to muck even if I was 75% certain you had three eights on the turn. Maybe he was just trying to convince the player in the big blind that he was in last place. With the tight passive conditions you describe and being first to open from middle position, I would have given more consideration to a raise right there. Your play after the flop seems reasonable though. Do you think you should have raised on the the flop to try to gain position? I don't see that moving the button unless he has two big cards without a club, in which case all you find out is if your hand will almost certainly be no good with a fourth club (except for the perfect one). If you do lose the button, I suppose you may suspect the blind will fold to a bet on the turn. I don't know if the blind flopped a set though so I probably take the free card and call on the river. I'm not certain what you think you did wrong with this hand, the way you played it wasn't bad. | ||
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| Re: 77 middle position 20-40, TOM WAGGONER, 20. Mar 2003 00:05 | ||
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| Hi Andrew, I agree that one of the mistakes was not raising preflop. I also thought that folding might be a better play on the flop. The only thing that saved me was the board pairing on the turn, allowing me to bluff at it, other than that, I have got two outs too a full, and four outs too the straight and straight flush. With the high probability of the button raising the flop bettor, because he was one of the more aggresive players in the game, I thought I should have folded instead of getting trapped up in it with few clean outs. | ||
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| Re: 77 middle position 20-40, TOM WAGGONER, 20. Mar 2003 00:09 | ||
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| Correction, I had two outs too trips, and four outs too the straight and straight flush. | ||
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| Re: 77 middle position 20-40, Andrew Wells, 20. Mar 2003 13:46 | ||
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| It wouldn't be that unusual for your 7c to be the only club out there. You probably have a 25% chance of a flush being the best hand if it falls on the river. Although it would be difficult to play if your turn raise doesn't drop the button. Even though you're going to get an almost automatic raise on the flop from the button, I still think it's twice as likely he has two big cards as opposed to a big pair. That combined with your understanding of how the big blind can be outplayed may very well be enough with the implied odds if you do get lucky to justify going one bet twice on the flop. | ||
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| Re: 77 middle position 20-40, shorn, 20. Mar 2003 06:21 | ||
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| My only thought would have been to raise the flop to try to lose the button in case he was on AK, AQ or AJ. Other than that, I think you played it quite well, especially the turn raise. | ||
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| Re: 77 middle position 20-40, stdioh, 20. Mar 2003 08:52 | ||
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| on 19. Mar 2003 17:31 TOM WAGGONER wrote: > This is a hand from a recent tight passive 20-40 game. I called as the first one > in from middle position with two sevens. It was folded too the button who was a > solid pro, and he raised, only the BB and I called. The flop was 846 all clubs. > I held the 7 of clubs. I figured the button for either AK or a big pair. The BB > led out at the pot, and he seemed to be making a lot of flop bets and folding on > later streets. I called, not really knowing where I was in the hand. The button > raised, and we both called. The turn was another eight, and the BB bets out > again, so I figured it's now or never and raise and they both fold. The button > told the BB that he had kings with the club and thought I had an eight. I > believe I played this hand wrong, but got the right results due to the eight > pairing and a risky raise. Any comments appreciated I think you played the hand ok - it's a very tricky one. I think that the straight flush draw, though only a 1/50 shot or so, actually adds a fair amount of value once the other eight comes. The reason for this, of course is that it is very likely for a player to have an eight for top tight and really play you, assuming that you're holding the suited ace. You do only have six good outs there though, so to play these cards I think you need a good read. Oh, and even if he said that he did, I doubt somebody would fold KK there. | ||
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| Re: 77 middle position 20-40, Andrew Wells, 20. Mar 2003 13:51 | ||
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| Yes it is doubtful he actually had KK, especially with the Kc. He can't be that solid for either folding, or making such a statement. | ||
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| Re: 77 middle position 20-40, Raddock, 20. Mar 2003 09:20 | ||
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| I'd say: Raise preflop (call button's raise, with better knowledge of where you stand) Fold to blind's bet on the flop (as you might easily be beaten in 2 places, and can easily be drawn out on if you are miraculously leading, and your draw is too thin if you're behind) Having mistakenly called the 2 bets on the flop, raising the turn is a HUGE mistake, as the blind is wearing a T-shirt which clearly reads "I have an overpair." The capper, so to speak, is the fact that it all worked out OK, because the button could never be expected to put you on 7's, and must inexplicably have assumed his king of clubs would be no good if the flush made it (?). Just as Clancy said in "The Cincinnati Kid": 'Sometimes poker is about making the wrong play at the right time." Or something like that. | ||
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