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 Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), Bill A., 16. Mar 2003 15:51 | ||
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| Does anyone know of any non-smoking poker rooms in Las Vegas other than the Bellagio and Mirage? Thanks Bill A. | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), Mike Caro, 16. Mar 2003 17:35 | ||
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| on 16. Mar 2003 15:51 Bill A. wrote: > Does anyone know of any non-smoking poker rooms in Las Vegas other than the > Bellagio and Mirage? > > Thanks Bill A. Hi, Bill -- We're about to get our first test of whether UPF can endure as a polite, stress-free zone for poker discussion. Bill, I'm not sure; other's will know which poker rooms in Las Vegas to recommend. But, here's a comment that never fails to stimulate debate. Let's see if we can launch the first respectful discussion ever of this emotional topic... I prefer smoking tables, even though I don't smoke. There are compelling poker tells involving smoke. I believe the danger of second-hand smoke has been very greatly exaggerated for political reasons. Second-hand smoke definitely has some health consequences and probably leads to sore throats, but it isn't "more dangerous" than direct smoking, as a not-too-long-ago public health campaign in California contended. I believe that we, as a society, yielded to the wrong people by virtually eliminating smoking. I agree that work environments and other places where smoking is banned have become more comfortable for many people, but -- to me -- the cost of this imposition was too great. The anti-smoking legislation gave encouragement to tyranical people of all shapes and sizes, and you'll soon see what the result of this experiment will be. Healthier people? Yes. Sorry people. Yes, also. We have empowered the very people who would ban gambling for our own good -- as long as they could gain psychological satisfaction by manipulating our lives. Bad idea to smoke? Yes. Bad idea to encourage people not to smoke? No -- good idea. Bad idea to put control over smoking in the hands of folks who used to be hippies and grew into the most repressive-minded generation in American history? Yep. Your turn. Straight Flushes, Mike Caro | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), Nathaniel Brous, 16. Mar 2003 19:15 | ||
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| on 16. Mar 2003 17:35 Mike Caro wrote: <snip>> Straight Flushes, Mike Caro Ditto. Nathaniel Brous | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), Bill A., 17. Mar 2003 04:54 | ||
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| Thank you very much Mr. Caro for your quick reply. Personally, I agree with the majority of your comments regarding the issue of smoking in public and particularly in poker rooms. I get a little nervous by empowering the select few to over regulate and burden the average citizen. However, from a selfish standpoint, I STRONGLY prefer non-smoking poker rooms, and have gone to great lengths to avoid non-smoking rooms. It is simply that smoke negatively effects my comfort and my play. The smoke will burn my eyes, throat etc., and eventually my discipline will erode. I personally hope that the future will see the expansion of more smoke free poker rooms and that all major WPT events will become non-smoking. Bill A. | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), Mike Caro, 21. Mar 2003 13:28 | ||
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| on 17. Mar 2003 04:54 Bill A. wrote: > Thank you very much Mr. Caro for your quick reply. Personally, I agree with the majority > of your comments regarding the issue of smoking in public and particularly in poker rooms. > I get a little nervous by empowering the select few to over regulate and burden the > average citizen. However, from a selfish standpoint, I STRONGLY prefer non-smoking poker > rooms, and have gone to great lengths to avoid non-smoking rooms. It is simply that smoke > negatively effects my comfort and my play. The smoke will burn my eyes, throat etc., and > eventually my discipline will erode. I personally hope that the future will see the > expansion of more smoke free poker rooms and that all major WPT events will become > non-smoking. > > Bill A. Hi, Bill -- Unrelated to my opinion that anti-smoking legislation has empowered people we really shouldn't empower, you may be interested to know that my wife, Phyllis Caro, created and directed the first major non-smoking poker tournament about eight years ago at the Bicycle Casino. I don't fully remember the details, but I think attendance was down a smidgen from what she expected. Still, she's proud of that pioneering effort -- and I'm proud of her for doing it. Straight Flushes, Mike Caro | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), Ashley Adams, 17. Mar 2003 05:07 | ||
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| Mike, I think that you overstate the dangers of legislation and understate the dangers of second hand smoke. The people who are making the laws are people we have elected. If we don't like the legislation banning a deadly carcinogen then we should elect people who agree with us. I believe you are mistaken about second-hand cigarette smoking leading to nothing more serious than a sore throat. The research on that point has been done for decades. It's a toxin that leads to cancer for the inhaler -- first or second hand. You can look it up. Would your position be different if you were convinced of this? I agree with you on one point though. The role of government is not to make laws that protect us from ourselves. I'm not opposed in the least to people smoking. Let them smoke 5 packs a day. Just don't make me inhale their smoke. I guess we disagree about the intent of these laws banning smoking in poker rooms. I don't think they are a smoke screen for banning smoking. Ashley Adams on 16. Mar 2003 17:35 Mike Caro wrote: > on 16. Mar 2003 15:51 Bill A. wrote: > > Does anyone know of any non-smoking poker rooms in Las Vegas other than the > > Bellagio and Mirage? > > > > Thanks Bill A. > > Hi, Bill -- > > We're about to get our first test of whether UPF can endure as a polite, stress-free > zone for poker discussion. > > Bill, I'm not sure; other's will know which poker rooms in Las Vegas to recommend. > But, here's a comment that never fails to stimulate debate. Let's see if we can > launch the first respectful discussion ever of this emotional topic... > > I prefer smoking tables, even though I don't smoke. There are compelling poker tells > involving smoke. I believe the danger of second-hand smoke has been very greatly > exaggerated for political reasons. Second-hand smoke definitely has some health > consequences and probably leads to sore throats, but it isn't "more dangerous" than > direct smoking, as a not-too-long-ago public health campaign in California > contended. > > I believe that we, as a society, yielded to the wrong people by virtually > eliminating smoking. I agree that work environments and other places where smoking is > banned have become more comfortable for many people, but -- to me -- the cost of this > imposition was too great. The anti-smoking legislation gave encouragement to > tyranical people of all shapes and sizes, and you'll soon see what the result of this > experiment will be. Healthier people? Yes. Sorry people. Yes, also. > > We have empowered the very people who would ban gambling for our own good -- as long > as they could gain psychological satisfaction by manipulating our lives. > > Bad idea to smoke? Yes. Bad idea to encourage people not to smoke? No -- good idea. > Bad idea to put control over smoking in the hands of folks who used to be hippies and > grew into the most repressive-minded generation in American history? Yep. > > Your turn. > > Straight Flushes, > Mike Caro | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), Mark, 17. Mar 2003 07:55 | ||
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| i agree strongly agree with you Ashley. Smoking is harmful to everyone's health. If i'm in a smoking card room(as opposed to smoke free) my eyes get dry and itchy and i feel generally uncomfortable, which must affect my play. Also, I have stress induced asthma, which means that i get asthma when I am physically stressing my body. So I get asthma attacks when i am doing areobic activity for prolonged times (i can run 2 miles and mountain bike all day long, most days). However, sometimes i get bad attacks just sitting in a smoke filled room. I don't exspect everyone to change their habits for me, but card rooms are losing my business and lots of other people's who are also noticably affected by smoke. This is not a small % of the population. Many times in smoke free card rooms, the topic of smoking comes up and many people will say that when given the choice they'll play in a smoke free room. The other consideration is that every employee should be entitled to work in a safe environment. Smoking does negatively affect your health. mark P.S. A quick fact about smoking. There are something like 5000 chemical added to cigarettes. Of those, at least 5 are proven 100% carcinogens. This means that if one of these 5 chemicals are absorbed a the human body, that body is 100% garanteed to get cancer. That was published in medical journal, i forget which one i read it in though. | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), stdioh, 17. Mar 2003 09:50 | ||
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| on 17. Mar 2003 07:55 Mark wrote: > i agree strongly agree with you Ashley. Smoking is harmful to everyone's health. > > If i'm in a smoking card room(as opposed to smoke free) my eyes get dry and itchy and i feel > generally uncomfortable, which must affect my play. > > Also, I have stress induced asthma, which means that i get asthma when I am physically > stressing my body. So I get asthma attacks when i am doing areobic activity for prolonged > times (i can run 2 miles and mountain bike all day long, most days). > > However, sometimes i get bad attacks just sitting in a smoke filled room. I don't exspect > everyone to change their habits for me, but card rooms are losing my business and lots of other > people's who are also noticably affected by smoke. This is not a small % of the population. > Many times in smoke free card rooms, the topic of smoking comes up and many people will say > that when given the choice they'll play in a smoke free room. > > The other consideration is that every employee should be entitled to work in a safe > environment. Smoking does negatively affect your health. > > mark > > P.S. A quick fact about smoking. There are something like 5000 chemical added to cigarettes. > Of those, at least 5 are proven 100% carcinogens. This means that if one of these 5 chemicals > are absorbed a the human body, that body is 100% garanteed to get cancer. > > That was published in medical journal, i forget which one i read it in though. Well, the laws of economics will balance the smoking and nonsmoking cardrooms....supply and demand. As for cigarette additives, that is a problem with US laws about how cigarettes are made. In Canada, our cigarettes are made only with pure tobacco and one additive to make them burn evenly and they cause a lot less health problems than US cigarettes - but they taste like ace. | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), Mark, 17. Mar 2003 12:32 | ||
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| stdioh, i'm canadian and was talking about canadian cigarettes. ours are not pure. mark | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), stdioh, 17. Mar 2003 13:22 | ||
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| on 17. Mar 2003 12:32 Mark wrote: > stdioh, > > i'm canadian and was talking about canadian cigarettes. ours are not pure. > > mark My understanding is that there are *NO* additives in Canadian cigarettes except for purposes of making them burn slowly and evenly...that it is illegal for cigarette companies up here to put in flavourings or additives to cause addiction. | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), Mark, 17. Mar 2003 23:16 | ||
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| > My understanding is that there are *NO* additives in Canadian cigarettes except for purposes of making them > burn slowly and evenly...that it is illegal for cigarette companies up here to put in flavourings or additives > to cause addiction. That is exactly what they do. Those chemicals are the reasons why it may be harder for people to quit smoking that to quit heroin ( still being debated). For a heroin addict, once you detoxify the body there is no more chemical dependancy, while smokers keep their chemical dependancy for very long times. mark | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), Snorbolus, 18. Mar 2003 05:28 | ||
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| 100% garanteed ?! Seems a little on the high side. Cancer takes a long time to develop. Even in the worst case senario, surely there is greater than 0% chance that something else will kill you first. Snorbolus > P.S. A quick fact about smoking. There are something like 5000 chemical added to cigarettes. > Of those, at least 5 are proven 100% carcinogens. This means that if one of these 5 chemicals > are absorbed a the human body, that body is 100% garanteed to get cancer. > > That was published in medical journal, i forget which one i read it in though. | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), Mark, 18. Mar 2003 07:51 | ||
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| on 18. Mar 2003 05:28 Snorbolus wrote: > 100% garanteed ?! Seems a little on the high side. Cancer takes a long time to develop. Even in the > worst case senario, surely there is greater than 0% chance that something else will kill you > first. > > Snorbolus this is a proven medical fact. if a body absorbs one of those chemicals, it will get cancer. i'm trying to locate the journal that was in, but i think my girlfriend threw it away. mark | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), Snorbolus, 18. Mar 2003 08:43 | ||
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| Give PubMed a try, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ Snorbolus > this is a proven medical fact. if a body absorbs one of those chemicals, it will get cancer. i'm > trying to locate the journal that was in, but i think my girlfriend threw it away. > > mark | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), stdioh, 18. Mar 2003 09:31 | ||
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| > this is a proven medical fact. if a body absorbs one of those chemicals, it will get cancer. i'm > trying to locate the journal that was in, but i think my girlfriend threw it away. You'll forgive my bad pun, but I think with this 'fact', somebody was blowing a little smoke up your arse. | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), Mark, 19. Mar 2003 16:56 | ||
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| Thanks for your well formed and informative reply. You must be right. Your evidence is overwhelming. Smoking doesn't cause cancer and may actually make you healthier. The doctors who study the effects of smoking are all lying as some sort of huge conspiracy to fool the world. The medical journals are also in on it cause they like to laugh at the public. So go smoke your brains out, you'll probably out live me. The hospitals in Canada must also be in on this conspiracy because one of the factors they use to diagnose how bad someone's health is, is how much they smoke. And life insurance companies are also in on this huge joke, as they get to charge smokers extra. Now, if someone could just tell me where lung cancer comes from. mark > You'll forgive my bad pun, but I think with this 'fact', somebody was blowing a little smoke up your arse. | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), stdioh, 20. Mar 2003 09:00 | ||
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| Now now...of course smoking causes cancer. I smoked for 11 years, but I don't have cancer and I *must* have absorbed at least one of these 5 things right? So eventually I *will* get cancer? You know what is a fact? After about 10 years of nonsmoking, your lungs are as healthy again as if you had never smoked at all. Smoking kills, but only a lifetime of smoking. Now really, at this point I think I'm going to bow out of this argument because if I wanted this sort of discussion I would be posting to RGP. | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), stdioh, 17. Mar 2003 09:47 | ||
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| on 17. Mar 2003 05:07 Ashley Adams wrote: > Mike, > I think that you overstate the dangers of legislation and understate the dangers of > second hand smoke. The people who are making the laws are people we have elected. I'm only going to argue with one point here. You seem to think that America is a 'democracy' and that 'the people' 'elect' the leaders...and that the leaders do what the people want. If that is truely the case, WTDH with Iraq? | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), shorn, 17. Mar 2003 11:45 | ||
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| The latest opinion poll has the US public 54% agreeing with force against Iraq regardless of the (lame duck) UN support. That's pretty high considering the current president only received 48% of the popular vote. | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), stdioh, 17. Mar 2003 13:23 | ||
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| on 17. Mar 2003 11:45 shorn wrote: > The latest opinion poll has the US public 54% agreeing with force against Iraq regardless of the > (lame duck) UN support. That's pretty high considering the current president only received 48% of > the popular vote. Unfortunately, 90% of the American public strongly believe in whatever the American Media tells them to believe in. Considering that, 54% is grotesquely small. I'm sure that this same 54% could be convinced to go to war with the entirety of the rest of the world. | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), shorn, 18. Mar 2003 06:27 | ||
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| on 17. Mar 2003 13:23 stdioh wrote: > on 17. Mar 2003 11:45 shorn wrote: > > The latest opinion poll has the US public 54% agreeing with force against Iraq regardless of the > > (lame duck) UN support. That's pretty high considering the current president only received 48% of > > the popular vote. > > Unfortunately, 90% of the American public strongly believe in whatever the American Media tells them to > believe in. Considering that, 54% is grotesquely small. I'm sure that this same 54% could be convinced to > go to war with the entirety of the rest of the world. Well, I guess you don't know the American media very well then. They are the most liberal faction in the country and they wholeheartedly do not support war. Bottom line...we are the only country in the world willing to do what needs to be done to secure peace. Unfortunately, that sometimes means going to war. | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), stdioh, 18. Mar 2003 09:33 | ||
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| > Well, I guess you don't know the American media very well then. They are the most liberal faction in the > country and they wholeheartedly do not support war. Bottom line...we are the only country in the world > willing to do what needs to be done to secure peace. Unfortunately, that sometimes means going to war. Indeed, the media is very much against most wars, but when going to war will benefit the nation of Israel, that motivation is reversed and the media seems to bang the war drums louder than anybody. | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), shorn, 18. Mar 2003 09:36 | ||
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| on 18. Mar 2003 09:33 stdioh wrote: > > Well, I guess you don't know the American media very well then. They are the most liberal faction in the > > country and they wholeheartedly do not support war. Bottom line...we are the only country in the world > > willing to do what needs to be done to secure peace. Unfortunately, that sometimes means going to war. > > Indeed, the media is very much against most wars, but when going to war will benefit the nation of Israel, that > motivation is reversed and the media seems to bang the war drums louder than anybody. Fair point. The only media I have seen in favor of this war has been the WSJ. Anyway, this is totally off the topic of this forum!! | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), stdioh, 18. Mar 2003 13:45 | ||
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| > Fair point. The only media I have seen in favor of this war has been the WSJ. Anyway, this is totally off the topic > of this forum!! Indeed. This thread is starting to look like good old usenet. I'm happy to let cancer, Iraq, etc fall off of here...or at least into "not quite poker" | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), stdioh, 17. Mar 2003 09:43 | ||
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| Hi Mike. Thanks for starting this topic. I'm a former smoker who smoked for 11 years and didn't quit entirely until under a year ago. As a result, I need a nonsmoking room, as sitting in a smoke filled room wracks my nerves and likely causes me to be a tell-factory myself. I find that smokers do tend to give off more tells than your average joe, but I think that there are a lot more bad players who would want a nonsmoking room. Generally speaking young people are nonsmokers these days and I like to play against relative beginners who think they know everything. And I agree with you that second hand smoke is not that bad. I think that the government lies more about the harm of cigarettes to others more than the tobacco companies do. Oh, and the other thing that I like about playing in a nonsmoking room is that the smokers are constantly missing their BB, then coming in after the puck, posting, and surrendering. As a loose agressive player, I like a hand with more posted money and think this really ups my EV. | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), stdioh, 17. Mar 2003 09:45 | ||
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| I should add here that I fully support smokers' rights and am very against public smoking bans. Here in Kitchener/Waterloo, Ontario there is no smoking at all in any bar, restaurant, club, etc. Night clubs have little fenced off outdoor areas....this winter there were days that were -26 C (with wind chill of -40) ... you'd be arrested if you sent your dog outside. | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), Mark, 17. Mar 2003 12:38 | ||
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| > And I agree with you that second hand smoke is not that bad. I think that the government > lies more about the harm of cigarettes to others more than the tobacco companies do. its not the government who performs the studies. The studies are performed by many different scientists with different agendas. The only studies which say that smoking is not harmful are the ones financed by tobacco companies. The government makes money on tabacco by taxing it, and loses money on non-smoking campaigns. if your going to have an opion on a subject, you should educate yourself on the facts. (i'm not trying to put anyone down, but i don't want to see lies spread). The fact is, in Canada, smoking kills more people that heart disease, car accidents, murders, and about 5 other things i can't remeber, combined. Next to father time, it is the # one killer in Canada. to say it is not harmful is ignorant. mark | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), stdioh, 17. Mar 2003 13:26 | ||
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| on 17. Mar 2003 12:38 Mark wrote: > > > And I agree with you that second hand smoke is not that bad. I think that the government > > lies more about the harm of cigarettes to others more than the tobacco companies do. > > its not the government who performs the studies. The studies are performed by many different > scientists with different agendas. The only studies which say that smoking is not harmful are > the ones financed by tobacco companies. > > The government makes money on tabacco by taxing it, and loses money on non-smoking campaigns. > > > if your going to have an opion on a subject, you should educate yourself on the facts. (i'm > not trying to put anyone down, but i don't want to see lies spread). > > The fact is, in Canada, smoking kills more people that heart disease, car accidents, murders, > and about 5 other things i can't remeber, combined. Next to father time, it is the # one > killer in Canada. to say it is not harmful is ignorant. > > mark I agree that smoking is a killer...I'm talking about second hand smoke. As for the stats on death, that's right off the cigarette pack and looks good on the surface, but why wouldn't smoking kill more people than murder? There are less people murderen in Canada every year than in LA. | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), Mark, 17. Mar 2003 23:33 | ||
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| > > The fact is, in Canada, smoking kills more people that heart disease, car accidents, murders, > > and about 5 other things i can't remeber, combined. Next to father time, it is the # one > > killer in Canada. to say it is not harmful is ignorant. > > > > mark > > I agree that smoking is a killer...I'm talking about second hand smoke. > > As for the stats on death, that's right off the cigarette pack and looks good on the surface, but > why wouldn't smoking kill more people than murder? There are less people murderen in Canada every > year than in LA. True, we don't have alot of murders. But what were are debating here is the value of smoking tells vs. the danger to your life. To increase my profit by a few $ per hour by sitting in a room full of smoke is not worth it to me. Whether or not second hand smoke is as bad, worse, or slightly better than actually smoking doesn't make a any difference to me. The fact is that it IS harmful to me. Here is a little background as to why i'm passionate on the subject. I'm from Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, Canada. In Sydney, the city i grew up in, there is one of the worst toxic waste sites in the world which people still live around. It is made up of tar and sludge from a steel plant and coke smelter. The site is full of PCB's and carcinogens. I'm only 25 years old and some of the people I went to school with have already been diagnosed with cancer. In fact Cape Breton, and specifically Sydney, have the highest cancer rates in all of Canada, and maybe North America. And surprise, surprise, many of the worst chemicals found in this toxic waste site are the same chemicals added to tobacco. Mark | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), stdioh, 18. Mar 2003 09:35 | ||
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| on 17. Mar 2003 23:33 Mark wrote: > > > > The fact is, in Canada, smoking kills more people that heart disease, car accidents, murders, > > > and about 5 other things i can't remeber, combined. Next to father time, it is the # one > > > killer in Canada. to say it is not harmful is ignorant. > > > > > > mark > > > > I agree that smoking is a killer...I'm talking about second hand smoke. > > > > As for the stats on death, that's right off the cigarette pack and looks good on the surface, but > > why wouldn't smoking kill more people than murder? There are less people murderen in Canada every > > year than in LA. > > True, we don't have alot of murders. But what were are debating here is the value of smoking tells vs. > the danger to your life. To increase my profit by a few $ per hour by sitting in a room full of smoke is > not worth it to me. Whether or not second hand smoke is as bad, worse, or slightly better than actually > smoking doesn't make a any difference to me. The fact is that it IS harmful to me. > > Here is a little background as to why i'm passionate on the subject. I'm from Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, > Canada. In Sydney, the city i grew up in, there is one of the worst toxic waste sites in the world which > people still live around. It is made up of tar and sludge from a steel plant and coke smelter. The site > is full of PCB's and carcinogens. I'm only 25 years old and some of the people I went to school with > have already been diagnosed with cancer. In fact Cape Breton, and specifically Sydney, have the highest > cancer rates in all of Canada, and maybe North America. > > And surprise, surprise, many of the worst chemicals found in this toxic waste site are the same > chemicals added to tobacco. That's the most specious line of reasoning I have ever heard! That's like saying, "I grew up next to Chernobyl and all of my friends got cancer because Chernobyl is radioactive. Smoke detectors are radioactive too, so I'm not getting anywhere near one of those!" | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), Mark, 19. Mar 2003 17:07 | ||
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| > That's the most specious line of reasoning I have ever heard! That's like saying, "I grew up next to > Chernobyl and all of my friends got cancer because Chernobyl is radioactive. Smoke detectors are radioactive > too, so I'm not getting anywhere near one of those!" Actually, my reasoning is logical. 1. the chemicals in toxic waste CAUSE cancer. 2. the SAME chemicals are in cigarettes therefore cigarettes cause cancer. Aren't you worried that they put toxic waste chemicals in cigarettes? mark | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), stdioh, 20. Mar 2003 09:03 | ||
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| on 19. Mar 2003 17:07 Mark wrote: > > > That's the most specious line of reasoning I have ever heard! That's like saying, "I grew up next to > > Chernobyl and all of my friends got cancer because Chernobyl is radioactive. Smoke detectors are radioactive > > too, so I'm not getting anywhere near one of those!" > > Actually, my reasoning is logical. > 1. the chemicals in toxic waste CAUSE cancer. > 2. the SAME chemicals are in cigarettes > therefore > cigarettes cause cancer. > > Aren't you worried that they put toxic waste chemicals in cigarettes? > mark "toxic waste" is a very loose term. I think you're falling victim to spin here. It sounds nasty when they have radio commercials telling you that there are toxic chemicals in cigarettes like (and I'm not kidding - this is on the radio) acetic acid. ... ... which is just vinegar. Well, sorry pals, but I put that on my french fries. If you burn a fire in your fireplace or drive on the freeway or whatever you are also breathing in "toxic waste" chemicals - c'est domage. I lived in Hamilton for a while and I'm sure breathing the air there was worse than smoking a pack a day. I get the idea that in your mind's eye there is a cigarette factory where a big tank of brown goo is being poured into the tobacco while some Mr. Burns type laughs maniacally. | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), Mike Caro, 21. Mar 2003 13:59 | ||
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| on 17. Mar 2003 12:38 Mark wrote: > > > And I agree with you that second hand smoke is not that bad. I think that the government > > lies more about the harm of cigarettes to others more than the tobacco companies do. > > its not the government who performs the studies. The studies are performed by many different > scientists with different agendas. The only studies which say that smoking is not harmful are > the ones financed by tobacco companies. > > The government makes money on tabacco by taxing it, and loses money on non-smoking campaigns. > > > if your going to have an opion on a subject, you should educate yourself on the facts. (i'm > not trying to put anyone down, but i don't want to see lies spread). > > The fact is, in Canada, smoking kills more people that heart disease, car accidents, murders, > and about 5 other things i can't remeber, combined. Next to father time, it is the # one > killer in Canada. to say it is not harmful is ignorant. > > mark Hi, Mark -- While it's true that many studies that showed no link between direct smoking and cancer were financed by tobacco companies, it is also true that many of the second-hand smoke studies that showed great danger were financed by organizations with quite different agendas. In academia, you frequently don't get grants unless your studies are predisposed to politically correct findings. There actually was a very significant independent study (perhaps the most encompassing ever, but I can't remember the details -- maybe UN-funded) that found no significant link between second-hand smoke and serious disease. It was not widely reported, perhaps because the results didn't fit the anti-smoking advocates agenda. Or maybe it was a flawed study. I don't know enought about it. If you do a Google seach for "scientific" studies that conclude there is great harm from second-hand smoke, further investigation will probably show that the great majority of them are politically motivated. Nonetheless, you make good points and present them fairly. Straight Flushes, Mike Caro | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), Snorbolus, 18. Mar 2003 05:20 | ||
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| It would be really great if my local casinos were to open second, smoking poker rooms. I don't smoke but I am not especially bothered about exposing myself to a bit of passive smoking now and again and I would really like to see more poker tables at the casino. Snorbolus > But, here's a comment that never fails to stimulate debate. Let's see if we can > launch the first respectful discussion ever of this emotional topic... > > I prefer smoking tables, even though I don't smoke. There are compelling poker tells.... | ||
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| Re: Non-smoking poker rooms (vegas), timmer, 19. Mar 2003 15:36 | ||
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| Ah... Orleans day and evening shifts | ||
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