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Server Time: 11/21/2008 2:24:05 AM PACIFIC |
 Mucked A A, Keith, 14. Mar 2003 06:40 | ||
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| I was playing a small buy-in tourney last night when I was dealt A A. I was UTG and raised immediately. There were 3 callers to include the BB. I noticed that the BB was a somewhat loose player who would play Ax and a lot of one-gap connectors T 8 and better. Flop was T T and a rag. He bet. I thought and I mucked my aces because I put at least one T in the hole on the BB. One fold and one caller. The turn was, can you guess? An ace. BB bet and the other player folds. BB shows me his ten. What are your thoughts? | ||
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| Re: Mucked A A, shorn, 14. Mar 2003 06:47 | ||
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| on 14. Mar 2003 06:40 Keith wrote: > I was playing a small buy-in tourney last night when I was dealt A A. I was UTG > and raised immediately. There were 3 callers to include the BB. I noticed > that the BB was a somewhat loose player who would play Ax and a lot of one-gap > connectors T 8 and better. Flop was T T and a rag. He bet. I thought and I > mucked my aces because I put at least one T in the hole on the BB. One fold > and one caller. The turn was, can you guess? An ace. BB bet and the other > player folds. BB shows me his ten. What are your thoughts? I would have raised the flop to see where you are. Many players will 3-bet the flop which you can then safely throw away your AA. If they just call, they are likely to try for a CR on the turn and then, depending on the turn card, you can decide whether or not to bet or check the turn and see the river for free. | ||
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| Re: Mucked A A, stdioh, 14. Mar 2003 07:45 | ||
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| on 14. Mar 2003 06:40 Keith wrote: > I was playing a small buy-in tourney last night when I was dealt A A. I was UTG > and raised immediately. There were 3 callers to include the BB. I noticed > that the BB was a somewhat loose player who would play Ax and a lot of one-gap > connectors T 8 and better. Flop was T T and a rag. He bet. I thought and I > mucked my aces because I put at least one T in the hole on the BB. One fold > and one caller. The turn was, can you guess? An ace. BB bet and the other > player folds. BB shows me his ten. What are your thoughts? Well, if you really did pull the amazing uber-read and *know* that he was on a ten, then fabulous fold - go play in the world series. I don't think I could ever get a strong enough read like that without raising the hand and seeing what was done nomatter who I was up against. Just remember that being overconfident in your reads can be even worse than not being confident enough...catastrophic folds cost a *lot* in expectation. | ||
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| Re: Mucked A A, Keith, 14. Mar 2003 08:48 | ||
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| I appreciate your confidence in my read and, yes, I hope to get to the WSOP someday. It was somewhere midway through the tourney and I was able to see how this guy played and the type of hads he was playing. If you were there, you would have put him on a ten as well. | ||
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| Re: Mucked A A, Schuster, 14. Mar 2003 09:41 | ||
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| I agree, if you knew he had the 10, then you made the right play. I'm not sure I could trust my own reads as much. The fact that the ace fell is tough, but you'd be happy that you played it the way you did if it didn't fall, and more often than not (enough to make folding the right play), it won't. Good luck! Lee | ||
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| Re: Mucked A A, stdioh, 14. Mar 2003 10:58 | ||
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| on 14. Mar 2003 09:41 Schuster wrote: > I agree, if you knew he had the 10, then you made the right play. I'm not sure I could trust > my own reads as much. The fact that the ace fell is tough, but you'd be happy that you played > it the way you did if it didn't fall, and more often than not (enough to make folding the right > play), it won't. Good luck! > > Lee Indeed, you can't feel bad just because you ended up hitting a 2-outer. That's like folding your draw to a straight flush in a no limit game against a giant bet and then hitting it. It hurts to have to see the card fall, but in the long run you're way ahead. | ||
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| Re: Mucked A A, shorn, 14. Mar 2003 11:16 | ||
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| on 14. Mar 2003 10:58 stdioh wrote: > on 14. Mar 2003 09:41 Schuster wrote: > > I agree, if you knew he had the 10, then you made the right play. I'm not sure I could trust > > my own reads as much. The fact that the ace fell is tough, but you'd be happy that you played > > it the way you did if it didn't fall, and more often than not (enough to make folding the right > > > play), it won't. Good luck! > > > > Lee > > Indeed, you can't feel bad just because you ended up hitting a 2-outer. That's like folding your > draw to a straight flush in a no limit game against a giant bet and then hitting it. It hurts to > have to see the card fall, but in the long run you're way ahead. I think in this situation, you have to raise the flop. Regardless of whether or not he would play T8 from time to time, he could be leading out with AK too. Despite the read being good in this case, if you make this type of play frequently (i.e., trusting your read so thoroghly), you will lose a ton of money in the long run. Of you raise, you risk one more bet for the chance to look at two more cards. If you don't hit and he leads on the river, then you can muck. I am of course assuming that we are talking limit hold em here...no limit is a different thing entirely. Steve | ||
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| Re: Mucked A A, TOM WAGGONER, 14. Mar 2003 14:51 | ||
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| I don't think I would have been so confident in that read with such a strong hand. There are other hands that he might lead with here that doesn't contain a ten, possibly Jacks, or just two overcards, or an underpair to the flop. It was a good laydown though. Too bad your ace had to come up and spoil it. | ||
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| Re: Mucked A A, Paul Stine, 16. Mar 2003 20:55 | ||
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| on 14. Mar 2003 06:40 Keith wrote: > I was playing a small buy-in tourney last night when I was dealt A A. I was UTG > and raised immediately. There were 3 callers to include the BB. I noticed > that the BB was a somewhat loose player who would play Ax and a lot of one-gap > connectors T 8 and better. Flop was T T and a rag. He bet. I thought and I > mucked my aces because I put at least one T in the hole on the BB. One fold > and one caller. The turn was, can you guess? An ace. BB bet and the other > player folds. BB shows me his ten. What are your thoughts? Right read, right action, positive reinforcement result, what more could one ask for? If one doesn't have the conviction to act according to one's reads what good are they? How many times have you heard a player say, I knew he had me beat but I had to see! I applaud your play. Making the appropriate play based on the given information and reads is a good habit that becomes easier and easier the more you do it. Mucking marginal hands in bad situations is another thing that becomes easier the more you do it. Woo Hoo! Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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| Re: Mucked A A, SL Hammond, 17. Mar 2003 13:06 | ||
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| Who Knew! | ||
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| To those that said raise the flop..., Easy E, 17. Mar 2003 13:02 | ||
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| ... you all generally seemed to state that, if reraised, you would have folded. Ignoring the read for now- If you're willing to invest another full bet in the flop raise, would it be a better tournament policy to call for 1/2 bet and then decide what to do on the turn? Not to catch the 2-outer, but to see how truly serious they are? Or, is it just shooting yourself in the foot generally to adopt such a stance? It's not a ring game where you just go on to the next hand with a rebuy all of the time.... NOTE- I'm assuming a limit tournament stage for all of the above, of course. Big bet is another story entirely.... | ||
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| Re: To those that said raise the flop..., stdioh, 17. Mar 2003 13:28 | ||
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| on 17. Mar 2003 13:02 Easy E wrote: > ... you all generally seemed to state that, if reraised, you would have folded. > > Ignoring the read for now- If you're willing to invest another full bet in the > flop raise, would it be a better tournament policy to call for 1/2 bet and then > decide what to do on the turn? Not to catch the 2-outer, but to see how truly > serious they are? > > Or, is it just shooting yourself in the foot generally to adopt such a stance? > It's not a ring game where you just go on to the next hand with a rebuy all of the > time.... > > NOTE- I'm assuming a limit tournament stage for all of the above, of course. Big > bet is another story entirely.... If you have (or think you have) the best of it, then get the money in the pot now. By waiting, you give your opponents chances to catch better hands and beat you. | ||
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