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Server Time: 10/11/2008 11:16:43 PM PACIFIC |
 PLAY AT PLANET POKER, Ted Good, 13. Mar 2003 17:40 | ||
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| I have been playing online poker for almost three years. Planet Poker is a first class venue. In my view the site is impeccably honest and forthright. Ted Good | ||
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| Bizarre things happen at Planet Poker., SendMoney, 14. Mar 2003 00:23 | ||
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| Let me preface this by saying that the only place I've ever played online is Planet Poker. In the course of a year I've probably lost a little over $2,000 dollars playing limits anywhere from .50/$1 to $5/$10. I'd say I'm pretty good as a player when I'm fresh and focused, but not as good when I play longer than I should, and I do occasionally get tilted when I get a great hand cracked. I also chase too many gutshots, backdoor flush draws, chase with middle pair, and play too many weak aces offsuite. I'm trying to find a happy medium between being a total rock and a total pidgeon, but I think I need to get a firmer grasp of things like pot odds compared to # of outs, and things like that. OK - About Planet Poker, I see many odd things there, enough over the course of my play that I no longer want to play online anymore. I've erased the Planet Poker program from my computer, and I hope I have the resolve to not download it again. I'll admit that I lost money because I played poorly, but there is something shady going on at Planet Poker and it has me spooked to play there. How about pocket aces being dealt in a 10 player Hold Em game 4 HANDS IN A ROW, and 5 OUT OF 6 HANDS? I got the pocket aces 2 out of 3 of those hands, once I won and once I lost. The odds of a single player being dealt pocket aces is approximately 1/221 or roughly 0.45%, that's right, less than half of 1%. According to this logic pocket aces tend to occur once every 22 hands in a 10 player game. The odds of pocket aces being dealt four straight hands is FREAKING ASTRONOMICAL. (think winning the California Lottery). I also saw quad 2s FOUR TIMES in one session, 3 Royal Flushes IN ONE WEEK, and other nonsense such as 3 players flopping sets on the SAME HAND?!?!?!? That's right, pocket 7s, pocket 10s, and pocket aces and the flop comes over 7-10-A. This is the type of non-sense I never see occur in real life poker rooms, and between my own inconsistent play, the possibility of online player collusion, and my 100% confidence that the cards ARE NOT randomly generated, I have no good reason to play online at Planet Poker, and I figure that since Planet Poker is generally regarded as the most reputable online card room, I don't want to bother with the others. I honestly believe that Planet Poker sends out the aces, and all the other strange monster hands in order to encourage betting to increase the rake. People tend to raise and re-raise pocket aces before the flop don't they? People tend to raise and re-raise pocket aces after the flop don't they? This isn't just sour grapes, in live games I've seen pocket aces dealt out 2 hands in a row, but never 3 - definitely not 4 in a row or 5 out of 6 hands. I've still NEVER seen a Royal Flush in a live game, let alone 3 in one week. To make a long story short, in a live game KK is a great starting hand, at Planet Poker it's pretty close to junk. | ||
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| Re: Bizarre things happen at Planet Poker., SendMoney, 14. Mar 2003 00:37 | ||
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| Please note I'm not saying that Planet Poker deals the good cards to one player over another, that is I'm not saying they play favorites. I'm just saying that I believe with 100% confidence that the cards ARE NOT randomly generated, and that I see way too many pocket aces and way too many monster hands being beaten by 1 outters or 2 outters. If you don't believe me try tracking it - play about 100 hands, and keep track of every time someone shows down with pocket aces. In 100 hands pocket aces should show up roughly 4.5 times in a 10 player game, after tracking 100 hands see how many times pocket aces are shown. Keep in mind this won't include the # of times pocket aces win without showing or fold without showing (probably against 4 flush or 4 straight boards on the turn or river with heavy betting). If you're seeing pocket aces being actually shown consistently 10-12 times out of 100 hands, you might suspect something, but if you see them 15-20 times out of 100 hands, you definitely know something fishy is up. | ||
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| Re: Bizarre things happen at Planet Poker., shorn, 14. Mar 2003 04:37 | ||
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| on 14. Mar 2003 00:37 SendMoney wrote: > Please note I'm not saying that Planet Poker deals the good cards to one player over > another, that is I'm not saying they play favorites. I'm just saying that I believe with > 100% confidence that the cards ARE NOT randomly generated, and that I see way too many > pocket aces and way too many monster hands being beaten by 1 outters or 2 outters. If you > don't believe me try tracking it - play about 100 hands, and keep track of every time > someone shows down with pocket aces. > > In 100 hands pocket aces should show up roughly 4.5 times in a 10 player game, after > tracking 100 hands see how many times pocket aces are shown. Keep in mind this won't > include the # of times pocket aces win without showing or fold without showing (probably > against 4 flush or 4 straight boards on the turn or river with heavy betting). If you're > seeing pocket aces being actually shown consistently 10-12 times out of 100 hands, you > might suspect something, but if you see them 15-20 times out of 100 hands, you definitely > know something fishy is up. I have never played at Planet Poker, but I do a little bit about statistics. Assuming that PP has dealy well over 2 million hands (?) in it's lifetime, I don't think that 100 hands (or 1000 hands for that matter) of seeing what you would think would be a statistical anomaly is really all that uncommon. Frankly, seeing AA dealt 15 times in 100 hands probably isn't even 1 standard deviation from the mean of 4.5/100. So, I think you just happened to see an interesting run of randomized cards. I am not saying that I have seen any proof that PP or any of the other major sites (Paradise, Party, etc.) are not doing what you suggest. But think about it...once the majority of the site is set up and you have hired your staff to maintain it, the margins on each hand that is dealt have to be astronomical as it is. So why would you risk all that easy money to try and increase the rake? Doesn't make sense to me... Steve | ||
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| Re: Bizarre things happen at Planet Poker., Mike Caro, 14. Mar 2003 09:25 | ||
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| Hi, SendMoney -- The likelihood of someone having aces in hold 'em at a 10-player table is somewhere in the broad range of 200,000-to-1 range, roughly three times as likely as a player being dealt a pat royal flush in five-card draw for instance. However, the first instance is essentially "a given," because that's what starts your mental accounting. That means you get the first pair of aces "for free." (We're assuming all aces survive to the river and are shown, for the sake of easier argument). So, since we get a "free start" in the things that trigger memories of strange results in our minds, we're really only looking for three more consecutive pairs of aces, in this case. The odds against that are not much more than 10,000-to-1 against. We tend to remember the unusual. We tend to forget the mundane. Straight Flushes, Mike Caro | ||
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| Re: Bizarre things happen at Planet Poker., Schuster, 14. Mar 2003 09:52 | ||
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| Also, I'm not sure how often you play, but remember the fact that games are dealt out faster online. If your game is dealing twice as many hands online as it would with a real deck, then you're bound to see more good hands. Making the claim that you saw twice as many pocket aces online as in a real game would be accurate. The perhaps deceiving part about it is that there is nothing shady happening. | ||
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| Re: Bizarre things happen at Planet Poker., SendMoney, 14. Mar 2003 13:36 | ||
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| I realize that online the hands play out a lot faster, but I am also the type to check hand histories quite often, and when I click to check the last 10 hands, and I see that 4 straight hands contain AA, and 5 out of 6, I'd say it has to at the very least be chalked up as very bizarre. I have played a lot more in live poker games than online, and in live games I hardly ever see flopped quads, straight flushes, or royal flushes. I also notice AA being dealt out at a pretty alarming rate, I've always noticed it but never quite to the degree of the example I brought up above. | ||
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| Re: Bizarre things happen at Planet Poker., Mark, 14. Mar 2003 15:17 | ||
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| I was once in a ring game and got dealt AA twice in a row! While this is a statistical anomaly, I don't regard it as bizzare. I did not know the dealler and was not hiding cards. it just happened. mark | ||
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| Re: Bizarre things happen at Planet Poker., Rosemary Tornatore, 16. Mar 2003 06:43 | ||
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| on 14. Mar 2003 13:36 SendMoney wrote: > I realize that online the hands play out a lot faster, but I am also the type to check hand > histories quite often, and when I click to check the last 10 hands, and I see that 4 straight hands > contain AA, and 5 out of 6, I'd say it has to at the very least be chalked up as very bizarre. I > have played a lot more in live poker games than online, and in live games I hardly ever see flopped > quads, straight flushes, or royal flushes. I also notice AA being dealt out at a pretty alarming > rate, I've always noticed it but never quite to the degree of the example I brought up above. | ||
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| Re: Bizarre things happen at Planet Poker., Rosemary Tornatore, 16. Mar 2003 06:45 | ||
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| on 16. Mar 2003 06:43 Rosemary Tornatore wrote: I had 3 6'2 and 3 8's and three jacks beat me. This is not the first incodent were my hand has been better than someone elses and they win. It also depends were you sit too. I think they should make it more fair and the cards that win should win. | ||
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| Re: Bizarre things happen at Planet Poker., 3Kings, 14. Mar 2003 16:50 | ||
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| I've played at PP for almost two years. In those two years, I have never seen a royal flush; not even in omaha. If what you are saying is true, then the 10 million to 1 shot you are talking about just came in. I think those things are possible. 5 years ago, I was playing in a 7-card stud game. One guy got four 4's. We all said "Great Hand". Two hands later, he got four 10's. We all said, "Wow!". 10 minutes later he got four Jacks. We all said, "this must be your night". 10 minutes later, he got four 3's. What could we say then. This was in a live game in a casino. I don't think the game was fixed but I am pretty sure that the odds of one person getting four four of a kinds in 45 minutes in probably higher that getting AA 5 out of 6 hands. Weird things do happen. | ||
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| Re: Bizarre things happen at Planet Poker., chasepoker, 14. Mar 2003 18:10 | ||
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| Does anyone here honestly think that PP would bother to fix the cards when they take 97% of all the money deposited as profit anyway ? If they were to fix it i think it would be a bit more subtle than giving loads of AA and Royal Flushes. With all the outrageous political activity going on in the world i think we all should be ashamed to worry about plots on a poker site. They take your money because a) the rake is so high compared to the bet size and b) you are not the greatest player in the world. Now can we return to real poker issues such as why i always raise with my lucky Q6 or why i feel it necesary to give a free card with a flush only to lose to a full house. Sorry for the rant, excuse the politics. | ||
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| Re: Bizarre things happen at Planet Poker., NiceFella, 15. Mar 2003 19:47 | ||
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| The concept that "online poker must be crooked because unlikely things happen" could be endlessly entertaining, but it's just getting old. I have only been playing Hold 'Em one year, and I've had any number of interesting hands. Yes, I've had a royal flush. I've had several straight flushes. I've had four of a kind innumerable times. I once entered a tournament and was dealt AA, KK, QQ, and JJ in my first 6 or 7 hands, lost them all, and was out of the tournament before paying my first blind. This all happened in a brick and mortar, not online. Nothing much more unusual than this has happened to me online. However, what does this prove? Jack SQUAT, and you shouldn't pay any attention to my results. It's just one person's observations of a tiny number of the billions of things that can occur in poker. Just because you personally haven't had a royal flush doesn't say anything at all about how often they should or shouldn't occur. You turn probability completely on its head when you ask how unlikely something was to have happened to you. How unlikely was it that I would be born at this time on this planet and live to post this ridiculous message on this forum? After dealing up 250 millions hands of poker, I should EXPECT that a casino would have dealt AA five hands in a row at least once. Someone had to be there to see it, and it was you. Now when you go around bad-mouthing Planet Poker based on this experience, you advertise the unusual while remaining silent about the ordinary. I know I'm just wasting my breath. Nothing I say here will stop people from thinking of old friends just as the phone rings, or hearing a ghostly noise just as a relative passes away. And it won't stop suckers from playing 83o just because they've been dealt it four times already in one night. What can I say, hope to see you at the tables. Sorry if this is a little mean folks, just venting. Man this topic gets old, and it clogs up our forum. | ||
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| Re: Bizarre things happen at Planet Poker., Rosemary Tornatore, 16. Mar 2003 07:51 | ||
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| I had a queen high straight and the other person had a 6 high straight and they one not fair. | ||
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| Re: Bizarre things happen at Planet Poker., Mark B., 17. Mar 2003 07:15 | ||
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| We could all talk about crazy things that have happened in games and try to one-up each other, but I think PP is much like a large Las Vegas casino such as Bellagio.....they will not fix the game, because would put their entire operation in jeopardy. They are profiting substantially on the level, so why risk it. The fact is that poker continues to grow in popularity and they have significant growth from this. I do applaud you for being hinest about the holes in your game and the fact that you are losing. maybe you should try a differnt site like Paradise and draw some comparisons. Good luck. | ||
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