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Server Time: 11/21/2008 12:34:45 AM PACIFIC |
 How would you?, RamDannyboy, 7. Mar 2003 13:53 | ||
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| I've had excellent responses to hands I've posted on this site and just want to say thanks for the great feedback. I've just played this hand in a online LLHE game. What do you think? Six limpers and I raise on the BB with Th Tc. All call. 7 handed. Flop: Td 7h 6s I bet out. 4 call. Turn: 2h I bet. 3 call. River: Jh I check call a player who takes it with Qh 9h flush. | ||
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| Re: How would you?, stdioh, 7. Mar 2003 14:09 | ||
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| on 7. Mar 2003 13:53 RamDannyboy wrote: > I've had excellent responses to hands I've posted on this site and just want to > say thanks for the great feedback. I've just played this hand in a online LLHE > game. What do you think? > > Six limpers and I raise on the BB with Th Tc. All call. 7 handed. > > Flop: Td 7h 6s > > I bet out. 4 call. > > Turn: 2h > > I bet. 3 call. > > River: Jh > > I check call a player who takes it with Qh 9h flush. Yup. You played it right the whole way. Very standard bad beat. Keep plugging away at it and you'll get paid off in time. | ||
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| Re: How would you?, Andrew Wells, 7. Mar 2003 17:39 | ||
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| No problem with the way you played it. You did have a couple of options though. You could have just checked before the flop, which is what I would ordinarily do most of the time. Raising is fine too, with six limpers already involved. You could have tried for a checkraise on the flop. Because of so many players, it is likely someone will bet. I do prefer to just lead out of the blinds with a flopped set, hoping to get in a reraise. | ||
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| Re: How would you?, Mark, 8. Mar 2003 11:07 | ||
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| > Six limpers and I raise on the BB with Th Tc. All call. 7 handed. I would just check in the BB with 10-10. Too many cards can kill your hand on the flop. > Flop: Td 7h 6s > I bet out. 4 call. This would be a great time for a check raise, however, you would have to be pretty sure someone would bet, and with such a ragged flop, it may not have helped anyone. > Turn: 2h > > I bet. 3 call. good play, again a good check raising time, but you need to be sure your opponents will give you action > River: Jh > I check call a player who takes it with Qh 9h flush. good check call, unless you have a solid tell, it's the right play. mark | ||
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| Re: How would you?, stdioh, 10. Mar 2003 14:03 | ||
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| > > Six limpers and I raise on the BB with Th Tc. All call. 7 handed. > > I would just check in the BB with 10-10. Too many cards can kill your hand on the > flop. No no no! This is precisely wrong. Your 10-10 is a monster hand with 6 limpers because you are hoping to flop a set with it. You raise here to build the pot because if you hit you are being paid by a tonne of players and if you don't then it is easy to pitch. Since there was no raise before you, you've probably got the best pair, so on a disgusting flop you're still good. Playing small and middle pocket pairs you want to encourage preflop money going in...so you raise from the BB when there are a lot of limpers and you limp in early position to encourage more limpers. It is a drawing hand, but a darned good one against a field of 6. Small and medium pocket pairs play great against 1 opponent of 4+ opponents. | ||
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| Re: How would you?, Mark, 11. Mar 2003 18:21 | ||
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| The actual pot odds with 6 players limping in do not give you correct odds to raise, but implied odds at a loose/calling table MAY provide decent odds. But being in the BB, your out of position on every other betting round. I think this is a huge disadvantage. I definately do not like to be an early position raiser in a large field unless i can NORMALLY play the hand very strong into many boards. 10-10 in the BB is not one of these hands for me. However, I would definately raise on button, but thats another discussion. Mark | ||
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| Re: How would you?, stdioh, 12. Mar 2003 08:32 | ||
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| on 11. Mar 2003 18:21 Mark wrote: > The actual pot odds with 6 players limping in do not give you correct odds to raise, but > implied odds at a loose/calling table MAY provide decent odds. > > But being in the BB, your out of position on every other betting round. I think this is a > huge disadvantage. > > I definately do not like to be an early position raiser in a large field unless i can NORMALLY > play the hand very strong into many boards. 10-10 in the BB is not one of these hands for me. > > > However, I would definately raise on button, but thats another discussion. > > Mark Indeed, implied odds are a big part of trying to flop a set and I was not clear about that. As for position, you're planning on only being in the hand if you have premium cards so position is less important. It is still important - don't get me wrong, but less so than playing a more marginal hand. | ||
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| Re: How would you?, Mark, 12. Mar 2003 12:47 | ||
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| I just wanted to add a little about why i don't like 10-10 that much in the BB. Even when you make your hand you may still be in trouble. 1. if you flop top set, there will probably be straight and gutshot draws out against you, and they will have correct odds to call 2. If you flop bottom set, there will definately be straight/gutshot draws out against you, with correct odds to draw. In order to have a set that you can really push with (or check-raise) you need to flop a 10, AND not have draws possible. Even though you'll make your hands about 1 in 7 tries, it won't always be the best. Those are just my thoughts. Yours are very reasonable also, but i don't agree (or feel comfortable) with raise in the BB. mark | ||
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| Re: How would you?, Andrew Wells, 12. Mar 2003 13:06 | ||
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| It can be played either way. Although I usually just call, sometimes with that many opponents it's worth a raise. The raise also has deceptive value if you are not known to raise much out of the blinds. You also don't always need to flop a set to continue. J98 rainbow would be a decent flop for pocket tens with 14 small bets in the pot. How about a flop like 633 or 333? | ||
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| Re: How would you?, stdioh, 12. Mar 2003 14:44 | ||
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| on 12. Mar 2003 12:47 Mark wrote: > I just wanted to add a little about why i don't like 10-10 that much in the BB. > > Even when you make your hand you may still be in trouble. > > 1. if you flop top set, there will probably be straight and gutshot draws out against you, and they > will have correct odds to call > > 2. If you flop bottom set, there will definately be straight/gutshot draws out against you, with > correct odds to draw. > > In order to have a set that you can really push with (or check-raise) you need to flop a 10, AND > not have draws possible. Even though you'll make your hands about 1 in 7 tries, it won't always be > the best. > > Those are just my thoughts. Yours are very reasonable also, but i don't agree (or feel > comfortable) with raise in the BB. > > mark You make a very good point, mark. That is the point that when there is a 10 on the board, there is very often a strong playing zone. If there is one facet of poker that I think too many middle limit winning players ignore it is the density of the playing zone. Top set means so much more when it is queens against a board of Q73 then against a board of QJT. | ||
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| Re: How would you?, Paul Stine, 12. Mar 2003 14:56 | ||
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| on 12. Mar 2003 14:44 stdioh wrote: > You make a very good point, mark. That is the point that when there is a 10 on the board, there is very > often a strong playing zone. If there is one facet of poker that I think too many middle limit winning > players ignore it is the density of the playing zone. Top set means so much more when it is queens > against a board of Q73 then against a board of QJT. This concept has been refered to as board coordination. I think Lou Kreiger recently wrote an article about this "playing zone" concept in Card Player. Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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| Re: How would you?, stdioh, 13. Mar 2003 07:49 | ||
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| on 12. Mar 2003 14:56 Paul Stine wrote: > on 12. Mar 2003 14:44 stdioh wrote: > > You make a very good point, mark. That is the point that when there is a 10 on the board, there is very > > often a strong playing zone. If there is one facet of poker that I think too many middle limit winning > > players ignore it is the density of the playing zone. Top set means so much more when it is queens > > against a board of Q73 then against a board of QJT. > > This concept has been refered to as board coordination. I think Lou Kreiger recently wrote an article about > this "playing zone" concept in Card Player. Yup...I believe it was in the latest cardplayer and it was a great article (IMHO). I think that there are a lot of little things like this that +.5BB/hour players ignore which prevent them from being +1BB/hour players. | ||
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