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Server Time: 10/6/2008 5:03:37 PM PACIFIC |
 Was I a Wimp with the Nut Full House?, Jeffrey Biship, 2. Mar 2003 01:13 | ||
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| Loosish microlimit, online O8 game. As usual, a lot of interesting hands were being shown down. This usually passive table was going through a bout of temporary insanity. The last hand was capped preflop with 5 or 6 way action. A few new players had just rotated in, so I'm wondering if the table has changed character. I'm three off the button with AcAsTcTd. There's been two limpers and a raiser, I make it three bets. The original raiser caps, we have six players seeing the flop for four bets each. Flop: Jd Ah Jc Zowie. I'm salivating until the action goes check, bet, raise to me. I three bet and the raiser caps. We've lost two players, four to the turn. Turn: 5c Once again it's check, bet, raise to me. I just call. It feels wrong. It feels dirty. But is it possible that someone would be playing trips so hard? That ace should be awfully scary given the fact it was capped preflop! We lose one player, three to the river. River: Qd Well, the river gets capped, but I never raised. It turns out I was agasint QQJ2 and AJ37. I guess I only really missed one bet, but I wonder if I played too passively here. Would anyone have folded before the river? Would anyone have raised the turn? Did my passive play keep hands in to pay me off? Or did I just get lucky that my opponents were less aware than I? Jeff | ||
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| Re: Was I a Wimp with the Nut Full House?, Andrew Wells, 3. Mar 2003 06:40 | ||
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| Although you could have been up against someone with four jacks, it is probably best to jam on the turn while players with backdoor low draws are still in the hand. | ||
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| Re: Was I a Wimp with the Nut Full House?, GKrause, 3. Mar 2003 07:35 | ||
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| I think jamming throughout the turn and river is a no-brainer. You are only worried about someone having the case JJ to beat you, and you should be punishing ppl with hands like a backdoor low draw with a jack. As it turns out, one of your opponents had A3Jx. | ||
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| Re: Was I a Wimp with the Nut Full House?, stdioh, 3. Mar 2003 09:57 | ||
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| on 2. Mar 2003 01:13 Jeffrey Biship wrote: > Loosish microlimit, online O8 game. As usual, a lot of interesting hands were > being shown down. This usually passive table was going through a bout of > temporary insanity. The last hand was capped preflop with 5 or 6 way action. A > few new players had just rotated in, so I'm wondering if the table has changed > character. > > I'm three off the button with AcAsTcTd. There's been two limpers and a raiser, > I make it three bets. The original raiser caps, we have six players seeing the > flop for four bets each. > > Flop: Jd Ah Jc > > Zowie. I'm salivating until the action goes check, bet, raise to me. I three > bet and the raiser caps. We've lost two players, four to the turn. > > Turn: 5c > > Once again it's check, bet, raise to me. I just call. It feels wrong. It > feels dirty. But is it possible that someone would be playing trips so hard? > That ace should be awfully scary given the fact it was capped preflop! We lose > one player, three to the river. > > River: Qd > > Well, the river gets capped, but I never raised. It turns out I was agasint > QQJ2 and AJ37. I guess I only really missed one bet, but I wonder if I played > too passively here. Would anyone have folded before the river? Would anyone > have raised the turn? Did my passive play keep hands in to pay me off? Or did > I just get lucky that my opponents were less aware than I? Yes, it is possible that you are beat by the nuts and this does happen a fair amount in Omaha. I think that you were right in making your ovevercalls here because it kept in crapier players who may have folded out if you had bet. | ||
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| Re: Was I a Wimp with the Nut Full House?, GKrause, 3. Mar 2003 15:36 | ||
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| I have to disagree that the overcalls were right cause they may have kept in players. He has what we're going to assume is the lock for high, why wouldn't he want to try and get low draws out? If they come along, great, but if you can raise someone off a low draw with the high locked up, trying to get the whole pot and having everyone fold is better than having a couple potential tag-alongs and spiltting the pot at that point, IMO. | ||
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| Re: Was I a Wimp with the Nut Full House?, Andrew Wells, 3. Mar 2003 20:49 | ||
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| Anyone with even a weak low draw is going to stay to see the river because the key card - the ace - is already on board, and it is a backdoor draw. The reason for wanting to put as many bets as possible in the pot on the turn is that you won't get any bets from someone who misses the low draw that doesn't also have at least a full house on the river. Now lets suppose a high card falls on the river after you have shown strength on the turn. If there was someone else jamming on the turn, then that player is also high and you can expect at least three more big bets on the river. Unless the case ace or a jack falls on the river (none of which are likely to still be in the deck) you make more money by playing fast on the turn. It's worth the risk that someone has or will make quads to extract as much as possible from anyone who is drawing low. | ||
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| Re: Was I a Wimp with the Nut Full House?, stdioh, 4. Mar 2003 07:52 | ||
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| on 3. Mar 2003 20:49 Andrew Wells wrote: > Anyone with even a weak low draw is going to stay to see the river because the key card - the > ace - is already on board, and it is a backdoor draw. The reason for wanting to put as many > bets as possible in the pot on the turn is that you won't get any bets from someone who misses > the low draw that doesn't also have at least a full house on the river. Now lets suppose a high > card falls on the river after you have shown strength on the turn. If there was someone else > jamming on the turn, then that player is also high and you can expect at least three more big > bets on the river. Unless the case ace or a jack falls on the river (none of which are likely > to still be in the deck) you make more money by playing fast on the turn. It's worth the risk > that someone has or will make quads to extract as much as possible from anyone who is drawing > low. The point is that if it is being capped anyway, you're getting the same number of bets, but now you hide your strength. And it is true that good low draws will stick around anyway, while bad low draws are already gone. Though in all fairness, omaha is not my forte, so I'm going to defer on this one and not insist that I'm right. | ||
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| Re: Was I a Wimp with the Nut Full House?, Andrew Wells, 4. Mar 2003 18:17 | ||
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| There's one more consideration. Jeff caught the best possible river card, a queen which made someone overfull to jacks. If the queen doesn't fall, the action could have gone bet - fold - fold - raise - call on the river. If Jeff has to put in the raise on the river instead of calling two cold, he now shows strength after slow playing the turn. That might have caused the lone opponent with jacks full of aces to just call. It worked out perfect for Jeff, but he could have easily been costing himself bets by not playing fast on the turn. | ||
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| Re: Was I a Wimp with the Nut Full House?, Jeffrey Biship, 5. Mar 2003 12:53 | ||
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| Thanks everyone for a good discussion. I appreciate the replies and am convinced that I should have raised the turn. Thanks, Jeff | ||
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