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Server Time: 8/30/2008 2:50:43 AM PACIFIC |
 AVOID ULTIMATE BET, Giocatore, 27. Feb 2003 13:21 | ||
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| Greetings fellow poker players. In an effort to expose both Ultimate Bet and one of their "Team Ultimate Bet" players, Annie Duke, for inappropriate unprofessionalism, I am posting a letter that I wrote to Card Player. I assure you that the followng incident is genuine, and I am sure that most of you will agree with me that it was completely uncalled for. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to read the following letter: Dear Card Player, First, I would like to commend you on a fine job covering the poker world, both live and virtual. As an avid on-line poker player, I particularly look forward to your monthly Online Poker Newsletter and enjoy reading the various articles by your excellent staff. No media source compares to Card Player's coverage of poker, and I congratulate you on a job well done and urge you to keep up the terrific work. In this e-mail, I would like to bring to the attention of Card Player an incident which occurred on Ultimate Bet about a month or so again. It is well known that many on-line poker sites sponsor some of the world's top poker players (Planet Poker - Mike Caro, Paradise Poker - Randy Holland and Peter Costa, among others, and Ultimate Bet - Phil Hellmuth, Russ Hamilton and Annie Duke, among others) in an effort to attract new players to their respective sites. I, personally, do not have anything against the tactic of on-line poker sites sponsoring big name poker professionals. However, I recently observed an incident on Ultimate Bet which I found to be quite disturbing and an outright disgrace to both the site and the player. One night, I happened to be watching Annie Duke playing at her $4/$8 Omaha Hi-Lo table with maybe five or six other players. After 10 minutes of observation, it was obvious to me that Annie had been on quite a roll, taking into account what was being typed in the chat area as well as the amount of chips she had at the table in proportion to the normal buy-in for a $4/$8 Omaha Hi-Lo game. To my surprise and to that of several of the players at that particular table, she began to randomly type 2 of her hole cards in the chat area, thus letting her opponents know 2 of her 4 hole cards, before the flop, because she had been on such a roll. To me, this incident was an outright disgrace and a complete mockery to the other players at the table. Instead of typing 2 hole cards at random, she should have just typed, "I'm so much better than all of you that I'll even tell you 2 of my hole cards and you still won't beat me." Annie's actions were completely uncalled for during this incident, and a site-sponsored player should not have handled herself in such a manner. She should be proud to be a member of "Team Ultimate Bet," and her mockery of her opponents makes me want to vomit. I have since closed my Ultimate Bet account due to this particular incident and some rather questionable play I encountered on their site. Upon closing my account, I received an e-mail from Ultimate Bet asking me for reasons why I had chosen to do so and examples of play which I found to be disturbing. I cited the above Annie Duke debacle, as I like to call it, and since then I have not heard anything from Ultimate Bet management. Quite fitting, isn't it? I wish there was something I could do so that Ultimate Bet would discipline Annie Duke for her uncalled for actions on that particular night, and in pondering my options, I chose to e-mail Card Player, the largest media forum for both real and on-line poker. I would greatly appreciate if you could publish this e-mail in your magazine for everyone to read, with the goal of exposing both Ultimate Bet and Annie Duke for their inappropriate actions. Once again, congratulations on a job well done and keep up the good work. | ||
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| Re: AVOID ULTIMATE BET, chasepoker, 27. Feb 2003 16:21 | ||
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| I am no pro player but surely if the people playing are seeing her do this and still losing shouldnt they stop playing ? Is the point of her not be able to do this because she is a pro or because anyone should not do it ? Interested to know others feelings as i dont think she did too much wrong. | ||
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| Re: AVOID ULTIMATE BET, Mark, 27. Feb 2003 17:16 | ||
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| I agree that it is a very arrogant thing to do, but i've seen lots of arrogance and worse in my short time in the poker world. Good for you for sticking to your morals and closing your account, many people wouldn't do that, but what do you really want to accomplish here. You can't make Annie Duke stop being arrogant and she makes the site money so their not going to fire her. Unfortunately, your outrage is probably going to fall on deaf ears. I doubt cardplayer will publish your email as Annie writes for Cardplayer and is probably friends with many of the staff (or at least has a business arrangement). c'est lavie But good for you for making a stand! mark | ||
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| Re: AVOID ULTIMATE BET, Giocatore, 27. Feb 2003 17:43 | ||
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| Hi Mark. I wouldn't call it "outrage" but rather "disappointment" regarding the incident I discussed in my original post. Furthermore, I do not believe that any player should make a mockey of his or her opponents, as I believe Annie Duke did by revealing 2 of her hole cards prior to the flop. And a site-sponsored player should know better than to exhibit such arrogance. Keep in mind that this is just my personal opinion and that I have no regrets about closing my Ultimate Bet account. And is it just a mere coincidence that Ultimate Bet e-mailed me hours after I closed my account asking for reasons but has not responded to my e-mail about the Annie Duke incident in 5 going on 6 days? It really makes you wonder. . . . . | ||
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| Re: AVOID ULTIMATE BET, Ashley Adams, 27. Feb 2003 20:33 | ||
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| Hi Mark, I agree that it's important for people to take a stand. There is painfully too little of that these days. I wish more of us had the courage of our convictions. But here's what I don't get. What is wrong with a player exposing hole cards to everyone at a table? This incident seems especially harmless..in fact helpful to her opponents. How is it different from a golf pro giving me a handicap or a professional cyclist giving me a large head start in a race? Why not just enjoy the advantage and use it as much as possible. I for one wouldn't want to play her any other way. I am interested in the rest of the story. Did she continue to win even though she exposed two of her cards? Will she or any other pro agree to hold Heads Up matches with me with the same format? Ashley Adams on 27. Feb 2003 17:16 Mark wrote: > I agree that it is a very arrogant thing to do, but i've seen lots of arrogance and worse > in my short time in the poker world. > > Good for you for sticking to your morals and closing your account, many people wouldn't > do that, but what do you really want to accomplish here. > > You can't make Annie Duke stop being arrogant and she makes the site money so their not > going to fire her. Unfortunately, your outrage is probably going to fall on deaf ears. > I doubt cardplayer will publish your email as Annie writes for Cardplayer and is probably > friends with many of the staff (or at least has a business arrangement). c'est lavie > > But good for you for making a stand! > > mark | ||
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| Re: AVOID ULTIMATE BET, Giocatore, 27. Feb 2003 20:54 | ||
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| Hi Ashley. Thanks for the feeback. You are entitled to your own opinion on the matter, and I fully respect that. But if you want to start talking hypothetically, mentioning golf and cycling, then I will ask you this question: If you were playing 20/40 heads-up hold em and your opponent was, say, up a grand and began to reveal one of his two hole cards, and then he or she won another 500, would you still consider this "fun" and a successful attempt to "lighten up the mood," because, according to you, there is not enough fun in poker? Somehow I doubt that you would still be in high spirits. And I'm quite sure the players at Annie's table who were stuck didn't consider it a "fun" night. To answer your question, she continued to win after she began to reveal 2 of her starting cards, and if you have played on Ultimate Bet, you know that one cannot cut and paste from the chat area. Otherwise I would have done so and e-mailed the dialogue to Ultimate Bet management. Final point: If someone is winning big, as Annie was on that particular night, there is no need to rub it in to the other players, i.e. revealing 2 hole cards and saying in so many words, "I'll even tell you guys 2 of my cards before the flop and still win," because that is pretty much what happened. Trust me, all of what I am saying is true, I have absolutely nothing to gain by posting what I did. I just figured that I would let some of the honest players know what goes on in Ultimate Bet games. And don't forget: They still haven't responded to me. Why did it take them 30 minutes to e-mail me after I closed my account, asking for for feedback on their site, and now they are simply ignoring me? | ||
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| Re: AVOID ULTIMATE BET, Ashley Adams, 27. Feb 2003 21:07 | ||
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| Giocatore, I have no idea why their customer service folks haven't responded sooner. All too often businesses fail their customers just by NOT responding. I think this is the first order of business. Communicate openly. As far as your question about how I would feel -- I guess I really don't know. I've been stuck before -- many times in fact -- and I can tell you this. I am ALWAYS looking for an edge. I feel certain that I would be thinking that her card exposure was a GOOD thing. Now whether my emotions would override it -- I doubt that they would but I really can't be sure. You write that by exposing her cards it was as if she were saying that she was so good that she could still win even with this tactic. I take it then that she didn't actually say that through chat. If her words were in fact taunting -- if she was deliberately belittling people by writing "You guys suck" or "Come one I'm TRYING to lose and you STILL can't beat me" then you'd have a point -- a good one. That would be taunting. But I don't see what she was doing as that -- at least not from what you've presented so far. I'll add one last thought on this subject. I think you need to get a thicker skin. Even if she were deliberately taunting you -- as a poker player your fundamental response should be to ignore the taunt and take advantage of her clearly minus EV tactic. It's just like when people in a casino criticise my play for one reason or another. Rather than get definsive, hurt, angry or the like I gladly agree with their criticisms and tell them that I can't help myself because I'm a bad player. Let your opponents feel superior, criticize your play and taunt you by exposing your cards. It only matters if you let it matter. Instead, capitalize on their arrogance (if that is indeed what motivates them) and use it against THEM. Ashley Adams on 27. Feb 2003 20:54 Giocatore wrote: > Hi Ashley. Thanks for the feeback. You are entitled to your own opinion on the matter, and I fully > respect that. But if you want to start talking hypothetically, mentioning golf and cycling, then I > will ask you this question: If you were playing 20/40 heads-up hold em and your opponent was, say, > up a grand and began to reveal one of his two hole cards, and then he or she won another 500, would > you still consider this "fun" and a successful attempt to "lighten up the mood," because, according > to you, there is not enough fun in poker? Somehow I doubt that you would still be in high spirits. > And I'm quite sure the players at Annie's table who were stuck didn't consider it a "fun" night. To > answer your question, she continued to win after she began to reveal 2 of her starting cards, and if > you have played on Ultimate Bet, you know that one cannot cut and paste from the chat area. > Otherwise I would have done so and e-mailed the dialogue to Ultimate Bet management. Final point: > If someone is winning big, as Annie was on that particular night, there is no need to rub it in to > the other players, i.e. revealing 2 hole cards and saying in so many words, "I'll even tell you guys > 2 of my cards before the flop and still win," because that is pretty much what happened. Trust me, > all of what I am saying is true, I have absolutely nothing to gain by posting what I did. I just > figured that I would let some of the honest players know what goes on in Ultimate Bet games. And > don't forget: They still haven't responded to me. Why did it take them 30 minutes to e-mail me > after I closed my account, asking for for feedback on their site, and now they are simply ignoring > me? | ||
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| Re: AVOID ULTIMATE BET, Poker God, 27. Feb 2003 23:05 | ||
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| well Giocatore i have a little fuel to add to your fire. I play on UB 7 days a week of the course a year and have watched many, many games that Annie Duke and Phil Hellmuth play. I can say this. I would never ever play a hand with Annie because of her bad attitude. She is in fact very rude and i have seen her say these words on there more than once, " why would you play that? your playing on MY table, you should know better." and she has said many other similar things. It is pretty much disgusting to watch. I agree however that even though this happens UB will never do anything about it because she does in fact "bring" people to the site. So pretty much what im saying is that nothing can or will be done about this. I just have no respect for her, and I think she is a bad influence on the poker world. | ||
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| Re: AVOID ULTIMATE BET, NickZack, 1. Mar 2003 18:24 | ||
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| What is wrong with you? How can it be a bad thing to see the cards in your opponents hand? IMHO any advantage is a good advantage. All that Annie is doing is helping you. She sometimes plays "no peek" where she calls any and all raises with what ever hand she gets. Mike | ||
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| Re: AVOID ULTIMATE BET, Ashley Adams, 27. Feb 2003 20:26 | ||
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| I agree with you chase. I don't see anything wrong. In fact, if there's anyone out there reading this who wants to start exposing two of his hole cards to me in Omaha (or Stud or Hold Em for that matter) I'm all for it. I promise not to take any offense! :-) Ashley Adams on 27. Feb 2003 16:21 chasepoker wrote: > I am no pro player but surely if the people playing are seeing her do this and still > losing shouldnt they stop playing ? > > Is the point of her not be able to do this because she is a pro or because anyone > should not do it ? > > Interested to know others feelings as i dont think she did too much wrong. | ||
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| Re: AVOID ULTIMATE BET, Ashley Adams, 27. Feb 2003 20:23 | ||
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| Hello Giocatore, I read your letter to Card Player. I could not disagree with you more. Poker is suppose to be at least a little about having fun. I see nothing demeaning, prideful, mocking or disturbing in having a sponsored player play exactly in the way you have described Annie Duke's play. One might call her behavior playful, perhaps silly or even childish. But so what. We are playing a game after all. I don't fault her; I certainly don't fault Ultimate Bet. But, I must admit, though it is sometimes easy to get the wrong impression by just reading someone's post, I do fault you for taking this too seriously. If anything, there isn't enough levity, fun or mirth left in poker. Annie's antics are a reminder that we should all, at least from time to time, lighten up more at the table -- virtual or otherwise. Ashley Adams on 27. Feb 2003 13:21 Giocatore wrote: > Greetings fellow poker players. In an effort to expose both Ultimate Bet and > one of their "Team Ultimate Bet" players, Annie Duke, for inappropriate > unprofessionalism, I am posting a letter that I wrote to Card Player. I assure > you that the followng incident is genuine, and I am sure that most of you will > agree with me that it was completely uncalled for. Any feedback would be > appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to read the following letter: > > Dear Card Player, > > First, I would like to commend you on a fine job covering the poker world, both > live and virtual. As an avid on-line poker player, I particularly look forward > to your monthly Online Poker Newsletter and enjoy reading the various articles > by your excellent staff. No media source compares to Card Player's coverage of > poker, and I congratulate you on a job well done and urge you to keep up the > terrific work. > > In this e-mail, I would like to bring to the attention of Card Player an > incident which occurred on Ultimate Bet about a month or so again. It is well > known that many on-line poker sites sponsor some of the world's top poker > players (Planet Poker - Mike Caro, Paradise Poker - Randy Holland and Peter > Costa, among others, and Ultimate Bet - Phil Hellmuth, Russ Hamilton and Annie > Duke, among others) in an effort to attract new players to their respective > sites. I, personally, do not have anything against the tactic of on-line poker > sites sponsoring big name poker professionals. However, I recently observed an > incident on Ultimate Bet which I found to be quite disturbing and an outright > disgrace to both the site and the player. One night, I happened to be watching > Annie Duke playing at her $4/$8 Omaha Hi-Lo table with maybe five or six other > players. After 10 minutes of observation, it was obvious to me that Annie had > been on quite a roll, taking into account what was being typed in the chat area > as well as the amount of chips she had at the table in proportion to the normal > buy-in for a $4/$8 Omaha Hi-Lo game. To my surprise and to that of several of > the players at that particular table, she began to randomly type 2 of her hole > cards in the chat area, thus letting her opponents know 2 of her 4 hole cards, > before the flop, because she had been on such a roll. To me, this incident was > an outright disgrace and a complete mockery to the other players at the table. > Instead of typing 2 hole cards at random, she should have just typed, "I'm so > much better than all of you that I'll even tell you 2 of my hole cards and you > still won't beat me." Annie's actions were completely uncalled for during this > incident, and a site-sponsored player should not have handled herself in such a > manner. She should be proud to be a member of "Team Ultimate Bet," and her > mockery of her opponents makes me want to vomit. I have since closed my > Ultimate Bet account due to this particular incident and some rather > questionable play I encountered on their site. Upon closing my account, I > received an e-mail from Ultimate Bet asking me for reasons why I had chosen to > do so and examples of play which I found to be disturbing. I cited the above > Annie Duke debacle, as I like to call it, and since then I have not heard > anything from Ultimate Bet management. Quite fitting, isn't it? I wish there > was something I could do so that Ultimate Bet would discipline Annie Duke for > her uncalled for actions on that particular night, and in pondering my options, > I chose to e-mail Card Player, the largest media forum for both real and on-line > poker. I would greatly appreciate if you could publish this e-mail in your > magazine for everyone to read, with the goal of exposing both Ultimate Bet and > Annie Duke for their inappropriate actions. Once again, congratulations on a > job well done and keep up the good work. > > > | ||
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| Different Take on the Annie Duke Table, Andrew Kinsman, 27. Feb 2003 23:55 | ||
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| <Annie's actions were completely uncalled for during this incident, and a site-sponsored player should not have handled herself in such a manner.> Giacatore - I have no connection to UltimateBet (apart from the fact that I hold an account there), and can quite understand your frustration if they have failed to respond to an e-mail you have sent them about this. However, I don't agree with you that Annie's actions are anything like as bad as you imply. It is worth noting that the Annie Duke Omaha 8 table at UB is almost unique in online poker - people get the chance to pit their wits against a top player for relatively small limits ($4/$8 with a half-kill). Although I have never participated in this game myself, I do observe on occasion when Annie is playing. Here are my own observations: First of all, regardless of whether she is winning or losing, Annie is very often chatting to everyone and getting them involved in the game. Second, she does on occasion give her opponents more of a chance. Although I am not surprised that she chose to reveal her hole cards (which I must admit is potentially a dubious practice, not because it is patronising, but because if there is more than one other player remaining in the pot it may provide one or other of them with an unfair edge), I have seen her playing 'no-blinky' before. I'm not sure of the exact rules of no-blinky, but it seems to involve a commitment to match any preflop bets or raises 'blind'. Sometimes no-blinky goes on quite for sometime, with Annie playing every single hand blind to the flop at least. When Russ Hamilton plays at the table she often makes him play no blinky as well. Naturally, with two players playing no blinky the game becomes fantastic value for everyone else in the game! Personally, I don't have any problem with the way the Annie Duke UB table is managed, in general. As Ashley Adams says, it's a bit of fun and clients can use their own judgement as to whether they choose to participate, observe or ignore it altogether. | ||
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| Re: AVOID ULTIMATE BET, TAKEDOWN, 28. Feb 2003 04:08 | ||
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| Sounds like the usual flamboyance of a professional who is also a showperson, I've seen Bob Stupeck go all in on a holdem game and show one of his 2 cards. Get used to it. | ||
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| Re: AVOID ULTIMATE BET, shorn, 28. Feb 2003 04:52 | ||
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| on 28. Feb 2003 04:08 TAKEDOWN wrote: > Sounds like the usual flamboyance of a professional who is also a showperson, I've > seen Bob Stupeck go all in on a holdem game and show one of his 2 cards. Get used to > it. I don't play on UB and don't know a whole lot about Annie. But, my take is that if there is anyone, pro or otherwise, who wants to reveal more information to me than they should, why is that bad for me? If she is being rude to players, that's another story, but I can't think of a more positive EV situation than someone deliberately giving me information that I would normally have to pay to see. I say bring it on. | ||
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| Re: AVOID ULTIMATE BET, Kid, 28. Feb 2003 09:08 | ||
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| I play against Annie all the time on UB. To say that she is a rude or arrogant player is unfair. She usually chats with people to lighten the game and her table manners are what I would consider above average. I do have a problem with someone exposing their whole cards before the pot is heads up because this can alter the action. Also, no one mentioned Planet Poker. I've played with Roy Cooke on several occasions where he announced his hole cards, no one at the table ever complained. KID | ||
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| Re: do not! AVOID ULTIMATE BET, Daniel Horowitz, 28. Feb 2003 10:06 | ||
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| I have played at Ultimatebet for close to a year now and in that time have played with Annie at her Omaha table and in Holdem games. I would like to say that while her actions may appear and may in fact be slightly unproffesional in the eyes of some, she is simply trying to have fun at the table. It is important to note that she does not always win. In all my time there I have noticed nothing spectacular about her results. She does talk a lot a the table and I find this to be very nice. She engages in conversations with as many people as she possibly can while at the table. Just because she may joke around and reveal some of her cards (things that I am sure almost all of you do at your home games you play in) does not say anything bad about her or Ultimatebet. I have never witnessed her talk about anothers play and I am sure if she did then it was in jest. Ultimatebet is a good site and you are saying you stopped playin there because someone started telling you their hole cards before the flop. hmmm Thats a mighty strange way to react to an advantage someone is giving you. I think you probably lost money during this session and still have anger because of it. If you find her so offensive then you could simply not play with her. Obviously the lure of playin with one of the best female players in the world drew you to the table. Annie is a laidback kind of woman (Montana? need i say more) and she is just trying to have fun. I do not see how this had any negative impact on you whatsoever. Regards, Daniel | ||
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| Re: do not! AVOID ULTIMATE BET, Louie D., 28. Feb 2003 10:39 | ||
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| I agree with Daniel 100% Annie is a great gal and have played with her many of times. Annie does joke around some bit but it is all and fun. She is a complete asset to UB. I have seen her help many of players in the past with advice as well as myself and I am grateful. Peace Louied | ||
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| Re: AVOID ULTIMATE BET, flintsword, 28. Feb 2003 18:17 | ||
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| This is fairly common "Master Class behaviour" that is high on master but low on class. Very common, Giocatore, because people are people. Not only in Poker but in chess. Masters and Grandmaster have a "large" population of the "I am better than God" type of players that feed their egos at the expense of other and at the expense of the game's betterment. There are also the super-classy polite players that are just one notch better, do not perch plastic rattlers on their pile of chips (read "Fortune's Smile" for that Annie Duke tidbit ...), and bring professionalism to the game. There is a world of difference between the Yasser Seirawan's of the chess world, a grandmaster known for his polite demeanor and professional attitude, and other grandmasters that play well but are social animals. This difference is the nature of the fact that poker talant is no guarantee that you can elevate your behaviour to a higher level, ... or want too. I have never met Annie Duke nor seen her play. Personally, showing cards is showmanship and will offend some and cause eyebrows to migrate northward in others. Frankly, she is a master player and my guess is she was having a little fun, blowing off some steam, and enjoying a run of cards. Arrogant? Yes, but for some people, arrogant goes with the territory. I have seen too many master chess players act like they are God's gift to chess to be surprised when I hear of antics like this. I applaud your stand, since all would like our best poker players to behave to a certain standard, but they are only human. | ||
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| Re: AVOID ULTIMATE BET, SamDam, 28. Feb 2003 22:27 | ||
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| You guys who are slamming Annie are wrong. She is always polite and friendly. Always says hello when you join her table and will never turn you down if you ask advice, even when she is in the middle of a hand. I too have seen her announce one or two of her hole cards and this was done in fun. It was usually done to attract players in to the game. She would offer to do this if railbirds would sit down. If players at the table objected she would quit. Classy lady and very good player. By the way I have seen her take some good size losses as well as wins at UB. Classy lady who I would sit with anytime. | ||
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| Re: Correction, flintsword, 1. Mar 2003 08:44 | ||
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| Thanks SamDam, I was waiting for someone who knows Annie Duke better to bring some perspective to the debate. I have since checked my sources (ie) Fortune's Smile reread and found out that it was JJ Bortner that had the plastic rattlesnake on her pile of chips, NOT Annie Duke. Memory fails me and I owe Ms. Duke an apology. | ||
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| Re: AVOID ULTIMATE BET, Mike Caro, 1. Mar 2003 16:40 | ||
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| Hi, Guy -- My wife is visiting me in the Ozarks and I haven't had time to monitor UPF for the last day and a half. Let me begin by saying that you may mean well by posting your recollections here, but it is the purpose of this forum to remain a stress-free poker zone. Your comments about Annie Duke may be titillating, but I have no way of verifying them. A general question, such as "Do you think it's right for a high-profile player with ties to an online cardroom to reveal two of his or her four cards in online Omaha?" would be appropriate for discussion. Had I seen that you were making specific charges that I cannot confirm, I would have politely told you about our policy of not making other persons or forum members uncomfortable. We are all a happy family here -- and you seem to be well-mannered yourself, just seeking an answer and unaware of UPF policy. Since there have been so many replies already, I'm going to let this discussion continue unless Anne Duke or management of Ultimate Bet asks me to take it down. For the record, I have always held Annie in the highest regard and have never heard any credible negative reports about her or about Ultimate Bet -- a cardroom where I'd be comfortable playing. Now, let me address your specific question... I'm guessing that, if the events happened as you remember, then Annie was just having fun with the table by injecting her personality into the game. Many players do this to make the action more lively, and they seldom intend anything mean-spirited by it. If there were only one opponent active when she revealed some of her cards, I would see nothing objectionable whatsoever. This is usually just a playful ploy. If there were more than one opponent active, you can argue that "exposing" cards interferes with the flow of the game and might be harmful to someone. But, even then, the action is usually taken in stride and actually is much more likely to help opponents than to harm them. In that sense, Annie was -- if things happened as you remember -- really going overboard to be a good sport. If she did chide opponents, I'm betting it was intended in a playful way. I often remind opponents how good I am in giggly, happy ways, and they almost always respond favorably to the challenge. This often makes poker more fun. Also, remember that it's OK to say what cards you hold and sometimes be telling the truth and sometimes be lying. The idiotic tournament rule that says you can't truthfully say what cards you hold -- even heads-up -- but can lie about them is fundamentally flawed. That's because anytime you mention a card that's in your hand, it must legally NOT be there. Therefore, you're giving real information about your hand because of this rule, whereas you could correctly vary truth with lies, otherwise, and not give away information. Straight Flushes, Mike Caro | ||
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| Re: AVOID ULTIMATE BET, Giocatore, 1. Mar 2003 21:35 | ||
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| OK everyone. Since I am the author of the original "Avoid Ultimate Bet" post, I will make one final attempt to explain my reasons for doing so and then consider the matter closed. My first mistake was giving the post the title "Avoid Ultimate Bet." I guess I was just frustrated that upon closing my Ultimate Bet account, I received not one but two e-mails from UB management asking me for reasons why I had chosen to do so but have yet to hear anything from them in 8 going on 9 days now about the Annie Duke incident and several other incidents of erratic, questionable play. Second, to Mike Caro, to answer your question about the legitimacy of my claim, I can assure you that it took place. Think about it. What do I, personally, have to gain by cutting and pasting a letter I wrote to Card Player? Absolutely nothing. And one more final question: Why do you think Ultimate Bet has not yet responded to my claim? Since the competition among on-line poker sites is rather tight, I would think they would do everything they could to address the matter in a professional manner. Finally, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and despite efforts from some of you to convince me otherwise, I still believe that Annie's actions were unprofessional of a site-sponsored player and, to a certain extent, a display of sheer arrogance. I never once insulted her or said she was rude or obnoxious, just unprofessional. It was not my intention to slander anyone on this forum. Again, I have absolutely nothing to gain from my original post. That is my final opinion. And from my standpoint, this matter is closed. | ||
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| Re: AVOID ULTIMATE BET, stdioh, 3. Mar 2003 10:29 | ||
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| I wouldn't have a problem with a player telling some or all of their cards in the chat window. It's something that is available to all of the other players, so why not. While they are in the hand they can do this sort of thing. Oftentimes an anti-bluff is a great play. Nothing like saying, "watch out...I'm holding AK," when you've actually got it on a great flop. Now if somebody was signalling cards to a buddy I would want heads to roll, but something like that I would call 'mostly harmless' at worst. Anybody who doesn't want to be there can leave her table and play somewhere else too. | ||
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