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Server Time: 9/4/2008 10:32:38 PM PACIFIC |
 Jacks and Tens, Roy Seider, 27. Feb 2003 08:51 | ||
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| Guys, I am getting my butt kicked playing jj and tt in low limit online games. If I raise I don't know what to do if an overcard comes and if I don't raise I get trapped if I have an overpair to the board. Any suggestions? Remember we are talking low limit. Thank you. | ||
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| Re: Jacks and Tens, shorn, 27. Feb 2003 09:38 | ||
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| on 27. Feb 2003 08:51 Roy Seider wrote: > Guys, I am getting my butt kicked playing jj and tt in low limit online games. > If I raise I don't know what to do if an overcard comes and if I don't raise I > get trapped if I have an overpair to the board. Any suggestions? Remember we are > talking low limit. Thank you. Roy- I feel your pain. Online, I play mostly 3-6 and 5-10 and have the same problem. The problem with raising with these hands (depending upon your position of course) is that most A-x hands will call unless you are in a tight game. And, a lot of players call with any two suited cards, so Kxs and Qxs are often played as well. So, unless I am in late/middle or late position, I generally call to see what the flop brings (the exception to this would be if I am on the button with a lot of limoers...then a raise is a +EV play in case you flop your set, and may get you a free card if you don't). If the flop looks clean, I will bet or raise and early bettor to try and limit the field. If there is an overcard to my pair (especially a K or Q), then how I proceed depends on a lot of factors: number of opponents, what I know about them, the size of the pot, where a bet (if any) comes from, if I have any backdoor potential, my relative position. However, if an A comes and there are a decent number of opponents, then I generally muck to a bet as most of the time (in my experience), someone has it and I am drawing really thin. These are hands that you can't fall in love with in LLH, but long run can be money makers. The key is getting away from them when the factors are against you. Good luck. Steve | ||
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| Re: Jacks and Tens, Snorbolus, 27. Feb 2003 11:13 | ||
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| In loose games, where preflop raises don’t really scare anyone out I usually limp with TT from early and middle positions. I raise/limp with JJ from these positions about 50% each. On the button and in the cutoff I almost always raise with either of these hands. I think of these as being for value raises. I am hoping for either an overpair to, or a set on, the flop. Note, I am discussing an unraised pot here, a raise in front makes things more complicated. If the flop has an overcard to my pair (and I don’t make a set) I would rather fold right there, irrespective of whether or not I raised before. This is because, in the games I play, no-raise preflop tells me nothing about my opponents hands. I frequently see players limp with very strong hands. Also most of my opponents will often play any paint card. Therefore, even if I am not already behind, my hand is vulnerable and I can’t bet it aggressively, so I would rather not bother. I would need to see some strong tells that make me think my pair are still good to put any more money into the pot here. If I have an overpair after the flop, unless I begin to suspect that my hand is not currently best, I try to make it as expensive as possible for players to stick around. Usually I would rather that everybody folded. If they do want to try and draw out on me I want them to pay for the chance. If I can destroy their odds to draw so much the better. If I have a set after the flop I also want to get lots of money into the pot, but I am not quite so pleased to see players fold. Nevertheless, especially if there is an obvious draw, I still want opponents to either pay a lot or fold. If I have managed to drive players out then overcards on the turn or river, although unwelcome, don’t terrify me as much as they do on the flop. Whatever comes on these streets, I try to ask myself: what did these players stick around with? Could this card have helped them? Does it seem as if it did? How much will it cost me to find out for sure. Snorbolus on 27. Feb 2003 08:51 Roy Seider wrote: > Guys, I am getting my butt kicked playing jj and tt in low limit online games. > If I raise I don't know what to do if an overcard comes and if I don't raise I > get trapped if I have an overpair to the board. Any suggestions? Remember we are > talking low limit. Thank you. | ||
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| Re: Jacks and Tens, Roy Cooke, 27. Feb 2003 13:51 | ||
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| Hi Roy Roy here :-)! Those situations are tough situations to play. If players are going to call anyway I am much more inclined to limp with those hands and try to increase the value of my hand if I flop a set. It also helps keep the pot small and lowers the price my opponents are receiving to draw out on an overpair. If players will lay down starting hands that are overcards I will raise with these types of hands. I hope that helps you! Roy Cooke on 27. Feb 2003 08:51 Roy Seider wrote: > Guys, I am getting my butt kicked playing jj and tt in low limit online games. > If I raise I don't know what to do if an overcard comes and if I don't raise I > get trapped if I have an overpair to the board. Any suggestions? Remember we are > talking low limit. Thank you. | ||
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