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Server Time: 10/15/2008 3:37:29 PM PACIFIC |
 5 Card Draw and Omaha/8, Mark, 26. Feb 2003 07:19 | ||
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| Hi all I've just started playing 5 Card Draw on line and need some help. In a loose low-limit game, what is the minimum you would call the blinds with, open raise with? Besides what other players with call vs. raise with, what other info. should I try to gather from my opponents? I've also started playing low-limit Omaha 8 or better. i know the best hands to play are ones that can win multiple ways, but are there rules to help decide what is playable pre-flop. I've been playing cards that are either all high, all low, high and low (e.g. AK2X) and sutited Aces. I'll also play cards that are tightly bunched (eg 5678). I find pairs are not that valuable as the winning high hand is at least a straight 50% of the time. Is trying to read hands in Omaha 8 a waste of time? The only hand reading I've been able to do is to find out who raises with the nut low on the flop. I am playing limit omaha, so most players just check the flop because everyone is getting correct drawing odds. PLEASE HELP Thanks in advance Mark | ||
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| Re: 5 Card Draw and Omaha/8, Mike Caro, 26. Feb 2003 10:07 | ||
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| on 26. Feb 2003 07:19 Mark wrote (in part): > Hi all > > I've just started playing 5 Card Draw on line and need some help. In a loose > low-limit game, what is the minimum you would call the blinds with, open raise > with? ... Hi, Mark -- Just like in hold 'em, if nobody else has called or raised the blind yet, the later your position, the less strength you need to call or raise. That's because there are fewer players left to disappoint you by holding a hand more powerful than yours. If someone has already called or raised the pot, you should ask yourself whether that opponent is rational. If so, then you should consider that in order to play you need a hand AT LEAST AS STRONG AS THE RATIONAL OPPONENT WOULD HAVE NEEDED TO CALL OR RAISE IN HIS POSITION. In other words, when no one else is involved yet, it's your position that determines how strong your hand needs to be. If someone else is already involved, it's the position of the FIRST caller or raiser that sets the standard for whatever all other opponents need. As a simple guideline in an eight-handed draw poker game with no wild cards, excluding straight and flush draws which are sometimes playable... 1st to act: At least a pair of aces. 2nd to act: At least a pair of kings. 3rd or 4th to act: At least a pair of queens, or jacks with one or more higher cards present (the value of higher cards with jacks -- or queens, for that matter -- is not in use as a kicker, but in making it less likely that opponents have a bigger pair) 5th to ace: A pair of eights (as before, and in all cases, higher extraneous cards are better than lower ones). 6th to act (dealer position): A pair of fours. 7th to act (small blind): Ace-queen or ace-king (as a three-card draw) or any pair. Again, these are just rough quick-fix estimates and are not set in stone. Straight Flushes, Mike Caro | ||
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| Re: 5 Card Draw and Omaha/8, Mark, 26. Feb 2003 20:05 | ||
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| Thanks Mike, that is a big help. I was playing a tighter than you suggest in late positions. I didn't know how much i could loosen up. I guess raising standards also loosen up as your position changes ( just like hold'em) Where should I start with raising standards. Some of my opponents will raised with AA or better, some won't raise 2 pair unless its aces up. Also, very few of my opponents play position (as far as i can tell). I don't haven't gone through any big bankroll swings in a session yet (4 or 5 BB either way, is this normal for 5 card draw as there are fewer betting rounds)? i go through some big single session swings in omaha. Thanks again Mark P.S. I'm just now REALLY starting to understand adjusting my play based on my opponents, as you describe in your poker seminars (just call habitual bluffers, etc). My play is greatly improving, as are my profits! | ||
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| Re: 5 Card Draw and Omaha/8, Tad Perry, 3. Mar 2003 23:00 | ||
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| on 26. Feb 2003 10:07 Mike Caro wrote: >If someone has already called or raised the pot, you should ask >yourself whether >that opponent is rational. If so, then you should consider that in order >to play you >need a hand AT LEAST AS STRONG AS THE RATIONAL OPPONENT >WOULD HAVE NEEDED TO CALL OR >RAISE IN HIS POSITION. Mike, isn't this actually more accurately stated as: "You need a hand at least a bit stronger than the average hand the rational opponent would have needed to call or raise in his or her position?" tvp | ||
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| Re: 5 Card Draw and Omaha/8, Rick M, 27. Feb 2003 12:41 | ||
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| As far as the O/8 questions, it seems that you have the basics of starting hands except for your idea of bunched cards. Cards like "5678" are useless. There is very little chance that your low is good, and if by some miracle you hit the high, your'e splitting for sure. As far as reading hands, Omaha is more of a numbers/odds game. Most players don't realize this. About the only reads I find useful is if a player ONLY raises under certain conditions. If you play with the same players enough, this will usually become clear. | ||
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| Re: 5 Card Draw and Omaha/8, Mark, 27. Feb 2003 17:31 | ||
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| thanks rick the omaha game i'm trying out is a limit game. Very little preflop or flop raising. Usually the flop is checked unless someone already has the nut low or a flush. But with the amount of limpers, 6-8, there is almost always 10:1 pot odds, so everybody calls on the flop. I find this game is a "nuts" game. To learn the game i've been keeping track of the winning hands (eg flush, full house, etc) A flush or better wins at least 60% of the time, during some sessions 80%. So i've been limping alot and only drawing to the nuts. Is this right? I can see why pot limit omaha is so popular with the combination of hands possible and the ability to punish draws. Are there any books you'd recommend for limit or pot limit? Thanks alot Mark | ||
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| Re: 5 Card Draw and Omaha/8, Rick M, 1. Mar 2003 16:52 | ||
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| I've found Ray Zee's book very helpful. I re-read it 2-3 times a year. -Rick | ||
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| Re: 5 Card Draw and Omaha/8, Nathaniel Brous, 27. Feb 2003 20:18 | ||
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| Hey Mark. May I suggest you check out Steve Badger's (WSOP Braclet Winner)website at www.playwinningpoker.com There is a tremendous amount of information/articles on Omaha/8 and poker in general. - Nathaniel Brous | ||
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| Re: 5 Card Draw and Omaha/8, Tad Perry, 3. Mar 2003 22:55 | ||
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| I'm sorry, this isn't any sort of answer to your question at all. When I saw this thread I suddenly thought of "Omadraw". First you play draw, then you take your five cards and play 5-card Omaha. I thought "Finally, there's a site that addresses the subtleties of Omadraw!" But alas, this is not an attempt to discuss Omadraw as I had thought. tvp | ||
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| Re: 5 Card Draw and Omaha/8, Nathaniel Brous, 4. Mar 2003 06:59 | ||
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| Hey Tad. Wouldn't that be Drawaha or Drawaha8? Seriously though, you ever play any variation of this at a home game? Would not the dealer have a tremendous advantage? I'd go with chucking the fifth card before the flop, or maybe after the flop. Man... the variations! - Nathaniel Brous | ||
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