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Server Time: 11/21/2008 3:41:36 AM PACIFIC |
 Did I misplay this?, shorn, 25. Feb 2003 05:16 | ||
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| Normal game, slightly loose before the flop but tighter after the flop. I have AKo in the SB, 1 early, middle, and late limper, I call and the BB checks so it is 5-handed. I only caleed as a deception play thinking that my position stunk and I likely would not get anyone out with a raise. Flop comes 7K2 rainbow. I check with the intention of checkraising (this is where I think I made a mistake) and it is checked around. Turn is Q (still rainbow), I bet, the BB raises, everyone else flods, I make it three bets. The BB thinks, thinks, then calls. River is a J, (I bet thinking that he BB would not have called my 3-bet with AT), BB calls and shows Q2o for two pair and the winner. Thoughts on my play? | ||
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| Re: Did I misplay this?, Big Frank, 25. Feb 2003 05:23 | ||
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| My feeling is that with a drawing hand lineAKo, you drew well and now it's time to take the pot or thin the field. I think you should have showed strength since you limped yourelf pre-flop with no strength out there. | ||
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| Re: Did I misplay this?, stdioh, 25. Feb 2003 07:00 | ||
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| on 25. Feb 2003 05:23 Big Frank wrote: > My feeling is that with a drawing hand lineAKo, you drew well and now it's time to > take the pot or thin the field. I think you should have showed strength since you > limped yourelf pre-flop with no strength out there. First off, I think you should be raising for value with AK from the SB. That said, when the flop hits you like that, you should be betting out. Going for the checkraise was correct since you didn't raise preflop, but raising preflop and then betting out would have been better. | ||
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| Re: Did I misplay this?, shorn, 25. Feb 2003 07:12 | ||
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| on 25. Feb 2003 07:00 stdioh wrote: > on 25. Feb 2003 05:23 Big Frank wrote: > > My feeling is that with a drawing hand lineAKo, you drew well and now it's time to > > take the pot or thin the field. I think you should have showed strength since you > > limped yourelf pre-flop with no strength out there. > > First off, I think you should be raising for value with AK from the SB. That said, when > the flop hits you like that, you should be betting out. Going for the checkraise was > correct since you didn't raise preflop, but raising preflop and then betting out would > have been better. Good points from both. I guess the reason I didn't raise from the SB was that no one would have folded at that point and I am basically announcing to the table that I have a big hand. Looking back, that might have been the right play but my thoughts were that I needed to improve to win vs. 4 other players so why risk additional $$ in the pot and hope I hit my 6-outer? I suppose that since I would hit an Ace or King roughly 36% of the time, if everyone calls, then the odds are there to raise. Thanks again for the analysis. | ||
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| Re: Did I misplay this?, stdioh, 25. Feb 2003 11:15 | ||
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| > Good points from both. I guess the reason I didn't raise from the SB was that no one would > have folded at that point and I am basically announcing to the table that I have a big hand. > Looking back, that might have been the right play but my thoughts were that I needed to improve > to win vs. 4 other players so why risk additional $$ in the pot and hope I hit my 6-outer? I > suppose that since I would hit an Ace or King roughly 36% of the time, if everyone calls, then > the odds are there to raise. Thanks again for the analysis. The announcement that you have a big hand is a side effect; you raise here to put more money into the pot and give yourself a higher +EV. It's ok if people are scared off by your raise. Really, if you flop anything that hits your hand, the only thing you want people to draw cards to is your broadway. Hitting an ace or a king gives you a good hand, but it is still a hand that you would rather take the money and run with that try to pump the pot with. | ||
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| Re: Did I misplay this?, shorn, 25. Feb 2003 13:23 | ||
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| on 25. Feb 2003 11:15 stdioh wrote: > > Good points from both. I guess the reason I didn't raise from the SB was that no one would > > have folded at that point and I am basically announcing to the table that I have a big hand. > > Looking back, that might have been the right play but my thoughts were that I needed to improve > > > to win vs. 4 other players so why risk additional $$ in the pot and hope I hit my 6-outer? I > > suppose that since I would hit an Ace or King roughly 36% of the time, if everyone calls, then > > the odds are there to raise. Thanks again for the analysis. > > The announcement that you have a big hand is a side effect; you raise here to put more money into > the pot and give yourself a higher +EV. It's ok if people are scared off by your raise. Really, if > you flop anything that hits your hand, the only thing you want people to draw cards to is your > broadway. Hitting an ace or a king gives you a good hand, but it is still a hand that you would > rather take the money and run with that try to pump the pot with. Now that I think more about it, I would raise next time. That is not the hand to get tricky with (as AA might be on occasion) and if I had raised preflop and bet the flop, I most likely would have won the pot (win 8 Sbets, not counting mine instead of losing 9 Sbets of my own...yikes!) and since I only lost 2 BB in the session, that decision was the difference right there. I feel sick... | ||
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| Re: Did I misplay this?, 3Kings, 25. Feb 2003 07:50 | ||
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| As you said, a pre-flop raise isn't going to thin the field, but it would make any draws on the flop right to call you. Since you didn't raise pre-flop, going for the check raise was right as there were 4 others in the pot and any of them could have a K or a middle pair (88, 99, TT). I think you played it right and just got unlucky. If your AK was suited, I think you should have raised, but since it was unsuited, a call was the best play since you were out of position. | ||
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| Re: Did I misplay this?, Andrew Wells, 25. Feb 2003 16:38 | ||
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| The flop is too ragged for anyone to bet without at least a pocket under pair or a king with a decent kicker. You have to hope the big blind checks and you get a bet out of late position. That's a bit too much to ask for without any reasonable drawing hands to that board. A possible two flush or two straight on the flop might be enough for someone to either bet the good draw or protect against a free card. You need that sort of board to be playing for a checkraise here. | ||
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| Re: Did I misplay this?, Roy Cooke, 25. Feb 2003 17:39 | ||
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| Hi Shorn I think the play of checking the turn is correct if aggressive players are in late position..otherwise I would have led! Roy Cooke on 25. Feb 2003 05:16 shorn wrote: > Normal game, slightly loose before the flop but tighter after the flop. I have > AKo in the SB, 1 early, middle, and late limper, I call and the BB checks so it > is 5-handed. I only caleed as a deception play thinking that my position stunk > and I likely would not get anyone out with a raise. Flop comes 7K2 rainbow. I > check with the intention of checkraising (this is where I think I made a > mistake) and it is checked around. Turn is Q (still rainbow), I bet, the BB > raises, everyone else flods, I make it three bets. The BB thinks, thinks, then > calls. River is a J, (I bet thinking that he BB would not have called my 3-bet > with AT), BB calls and shows Q2o for two pair and the winner. Thoughts on my > play? | ||
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| Re: Did I misplay this?, Roy Cooke, 25. Feb 2003 17:40 | ||
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| I said turn...I meant flop! Roy Cooke on 25. Feb 2003 17:39 Roy Cooke wrote: > Hi Shorn > > I think the play of checking the turn is correct if aggressive players are in late > position..otherwise I would have led! > > Roy Cooke > > on 25. Feb 2003 05:16 shorn wrote: > > Normal game, slightly loose before the flop but tighter after the flop. I have > > AKo in the SB, 1 early, middle, and late limper, I call and the BB checks so it > > is 5-handed. I only caleed as a deception play thinking that my position stunk > > and I likely would not get anyone out with a raise. Flop comes 7K2 rainbow. I > > check with the intention of checkraising (this is where I think I made a > > mistake) and it is checked around. Turn is Q (still rainbow), I bet, the BB > > raises, everyone else flods, I make it three bets. The BB thinks, thinks, then > > calls. River is a J, (I bet thinking that he BB would not have called my 3-bet > > with AT), BB calls and shows Q2o for two pair and the winner. Thoughts on my > > play? | ||
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| Re: Did I misplay this?, shorn, 25. Feb 2003 17:59 | ||
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| on 25. Feb 2003 17:40 Roy Cooke wrote: > I said turn...I meant flop! > > Roy Cooke Thanks Roy. I really value your input. > > on 25. Feb 2003 17:39 Roy Cooke wrote: > > Hi Shorn > > > > I think the play of checking the turn is correct if aggressive players are in late > > position..otherwise I would have led! > > > > Roy Cooke > > > > on 25. Feb 2003 05:16 shorn wrote: > > > Normal game, slightly loose before the flop but tighter after the flop. I have > > > AKo in the SB, 1 early, middle, and late limper, I call and the BB checks so it > > > is 5-handed. I only caleed as a deception play thinking that my position stunk > > > and I likely would not get anyone out with a raise. Flop comes 7K2 rainbow. I > > > check with the intention of checkraising (this is where I think I made a > > > mistake) and it is checked around. Turn is Q (still rainbow), I bet, the BB > > > raises, everyone else flods, I make it three bets. The BB thinks, thinks, then > > > calls. River is a J, (I bet thinking that he BB would not have called my 3-bet > > > with AT), BB calls and shows Q2o for two pair and the winner. Thoughts on my > > > play? | ||
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| Re: Did I misplay this?, Andrew Wells, 26. Feb 2003 10:16 | ||
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| It's such a ragged flop for even an aggressive player in late position to be representing a weak king, especially with both blinds still in the hand. Shorn did say it was a loose but normal type game, so I don't think it should be unexpected that it would get checked around on the flop. I much prefer a simple lead bet instead of trying for a checkraise (with or without an over aggressive player in last position) with such an uncoordinated board. | ||
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