|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 11/21/2008 12:43:19 AM PACIFIC |
 Did I make the correct play?, Mark, 18. Feb 2003 13:37 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I found a huge fish at my online poker site. 1)he limps in every hand. 2) Bets any piece of the flop (bottom pair or overcards) 3)If he hasn't got a piece of the flop he'll check. If someone else bets he RAISES. Yes, raises with nothing. 4)If he bet or raises the flop (even with nothing), he's married to his hand and will bet or call the turn. 5)He will bet or call the river with anything (bottom pair or better) 6) he has raised all the way to the river with undercards numerous times. His hyperaggressive play wins him money against the typical passive opponents so he doesn't stop doing it. He made me 15 BB/hr for 2 hours on monday. today i found him again. Its a 10 handed low-limit game. I'm my usuall tight-aggressive self. There are 8 passive player and the fish. After a few hands it becomes obvious to every one the fish is betting/raising everything so all the passive players REALLY loosen up and turn into calling stations. Now, most pots are growing to 15 - 20 big bets. I get A-2 suited (diamonds) in middle position. Ususally I throw this away in a 10 handed game without a second thought. But in this game everyone is limping pre-flop and the payoff can be huge, so i limp. The flop comes Q-9-6 with 2 diamonds. An EP player opens and the fish, of course, raises. The only player between me and the fish calls, and I 3 bet with the nut flush draw. I expect the fish to 4 bet me and welcome it. My lone ace is probably about 1:2 to win in a showdown with the fish if i don't improve, and i figure my 3 bet and his subsequent 4 bet willl eliminate the rest of the field. But a strange thing happened. A few players called my 3 bet, and when the fish four bet there was 4 of us who called. The pot is pretty big at this point. I am seconcd the nearest the button. The turn is a blank. 3 of hearts. everyone checks to me. I decided to bet. If any of the players before me liked their hands they would have bet. The pot is huge (about 20 big bets). There is also a good chance that if i bet the fish will raise and i will be heads up against him. So I bet, there are 2 EP callers,the fish raises, everyone calls. The river comes a diamond. I've got the nuts and win 27.5 Big bets. Was my flop and turn play correct? Some of the passive players calling on the flop was just a response to hyper aggression from the fish. They were calling stations and would call with anything, hoping to pair their rags on the river. One passive player had top pair with a 4 kicker and hung around to the end and the fish turned bottom pair. No one else had anything. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make the correct play?, stdioh, 18. Feb 2003 14:44 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| on 18. Feb 2003 13:37 Mark wrote: > I found a huge fish at my online poker site. > 1)he limps in every hand. > 2) Bets any piece of the flop (bottom pair or overcards) > 3)If he hasn't got a piece of the flop he'll check. If someone else bets he > RAISES. Yes, raises with nothing. > 4)If he bet or raises the flop (even with nothing), he's married to his hand > and will bet or call the turn. > 5)He will bet or call the river with anything (bottom pair or better) > 6) he has raised all the way to the river with undercards numerous times. > > His hyperaggressive play wins him money against the typical passive opponents > so he doesn't stop doing it. He made me 15 BB/hr for 2 hours on monday. > > today i found him again. Its a 10 handed low-limit game. I'm my usuall > tight-aggressive self. There are 8 passive player and the fish. After a few > hands it becomes obvious to every one the fish is betting/raising everything so > all the passive players REALLY loosen up and turn into calling stations. Now, > most pots are growing to 15 - 20 big bets. > > I get A-2 suited (diamonds) in middle position. Ususally I throw this away in > a 10 handed game without a second thought. But in this game everyone is limping > pre-flop and the payoff can be huge, so i limp. The flop comes Q-9-6 with 2 > diamonds. > > An EP player opens and the fish, of course, raises. The only player between me > and the fish calls, and I 3 bet with the nut flush draw. I expect the fish to 4 > bet me and welcome it. My lone ace is probably about 1:2 to win in a showdown > with the fish if i don't improve, and i figure my 3 bet and his subsequent 4 bet > willl eliminate the rest of the field. > > But a strange thing happened. A few players called my 3 bet, and when the fish > four bet there was 4 of us who called. The pot is pretty big at this point. I > am seconcd the nearest the button. > > The turn is a blank. 3 of hearts. everyone checks to me. I decided to bet. > If any of the players before me liked their hands they would have bet. The pot > is huge (about 20 big bets). There is also a good chance that if i bet the fish > will raise and i will be heads up against him. > > So I bet, there are 2 EP callers,the fish raises, everyone calls. > > The river comes a diamond. I've got the nuts and win 27.5 Big bets. > > Was my flop and turn play correct? Some of the passive players calling on the > flop was just a response to hyper aggression from the fish. They were calling > stations and would call with anything, hoping to pair their rags on the river. > > One passive player had top pair with a 4 kicker and hung around to the end and > the fish turned bottom pair. No one else had anything. You were still lucky to hit your hand. Playing looser to catch the fish is totally acceptable when you're staying out of the way of others and they you. In this case, however, you're opening up yourself for dissapointment when a bigger hand beats you every time. Here, you got lucky and hit the nuts - good stuff. Nonetheless, I would have been less agressive. It sounds like this guy will bet the turn if everybody checks because it is fish psychology that if nobody bets then he is either good or can fold out anybody who is. Thus he makes the bet on the turn for you and you can call it down. Yes, it would be nice to fold everybody out and play your ace against the fish, but you can't really expect to fold everybody when there is that much money in the pot already. You need your hand to improve or you may as well throw it away. Now when you hit, if you didn't bet the turn, somebody else would have, either after you or the fish himself, so now you are set up for the perfect raise or checkraise, since in a pot of that magnitude, somebody, at least the fish is bound to bet. Now you're holding the nuts and can raise. Perhaps you'll fold somebody that you wouldn't with an overcall, but you're still going to get called down by the fish and the fishermen. I'd say you could have had more money from the hand having made it and I think you could have lost less than you would have had things gone South. That said, it sounds like you've got the right idea. I just suggest that when everybody goes fishing, everybody is also making themselves fishy...it might be time for you to stick to your guns and play tight...wait for your opportunity and catch them all with their pants down when you hold AA and break them open. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make the correct play?, Hatchet Harry, 18. Feb 2003 14:52 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Knowing the EP passive players only called your bet on the turn, and being your draw was to the nut flush, would'nt it be correct to 3 bet in this situation. This could result in the following: A) isolate the fish which could get you another 3 potential outs with the Ace. b) Make anybody holding TJ pay for their lesser draw. c) Get 1 or both of the EP players to fold what is possibly the best hand at the time. Assuming the EP players would raise the turn with 2 pair or a set, the best they could be on would be on is top pair or a lesser draw which it's easy to make the mistake of folding in the face of 2 big bet re-raise. If I'm wrong then I'm gonna save a couple of bets after reading the pro's analysis as I think I would've played it this way! Hope you have many more similar dilimea's Regards H | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Did I make the correct play?, Andrew Wells, 18. Feb 2003 20:38 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Once you have someone call two bets cold on the flop it is almost impossible to get isolation. With one or more players between you and the button, taking it to three bets will often buy you position on the turn. However, you're no longer getting a free card because you expect the action to be capped back to you. Therefore it makes more sense to call two cold on the flop with your nut draw, instead of thinking you can pick up two more outs by getting someone with an ace to fold. If it's five way action on the turn, with a pot so large that no one is going to fold, you have positive expectation making the bet as you did, although I would be thinking that maybe a diamond which also pairs the board could be a disaster. If you had the loose aggressive player on your left, it could be worth checkraising with the nut draw. But in your example checking or betting the turn are both reasonable plays. By checking, you might save a bet if the player behind you checks and you miss on the river. You might also catch someone with a lesser flush draw and make three bets on the river if you both catch. If you bet the turn and catch on the river, you probably only make one more bet. Since you have five way action on the turn, and because the loose aggressive player might checkraise if a late position player bets, I would probably not check. If someone calls behind you, that probably stops a checkraise from anything other than a set. You played the hand okay, but I wouldn't have stuck a reraise in there on the flop. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network |
|