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Server Time: 10/15/2008 3:58:44 PM PACIFIC |
 Etiquette re. looking at dealt & neighbours cards., XJ, 12. Feb 2003 08:24 | ||
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| In a casino tournament yesterday, I had the chance a few times to sneak a peek at my neighbours cards. My neighbour on my right just wasn't concealing them very well, and a couple of times pre-flop, I saw what his cards were. My neighbour on my left was a bit better at concealing his cards, I also sneaked a few peeks preflop at his hand. Also, during the same game, when a new dealer came on who was obviously a little less experienced, he was dealing the cards at an angle sufficient for me to *just* see all the cards dealt after me around the table. (I was in seat 6 of an 11 seat table). I couldn't see *exactly* what the cards were, but I could generally catch whether a few of them were red or black, and whether they were face cards or not. I'm wondering what the written and unwritten rules are about this sort of thing - can I ever get thrown off a table or out of a tournament if the dealer suspects that I'm looking at other peoples' cards.. or is it their responsibility to keep them concealed? And what do I do if I have a dealer that I know is dealing badly and exposing cards as they're 'in flight' ? Anyone further to my right could potentially have seen even more of the cards than I could, and I was definitely in a position where I knew something was wrong... what could/should you do in a situation like this? Obviously there is the ethical question of whether or not I should look at neighbours' cards if they're exposed to me... obviously it's not exactly sportsmanlike.. but if they're *RIGHT THERE* in my field of vision, and the player is not skilled enough to hide them... aren't I just taking tactical advantage of his error.. ? | ||
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| Re: Etiquette re. looking at dealt & neighbours cards., whiskeytown, 12. Feb 2003 10:09 | ||
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| in a game there will be angle players - they would say no, cause they'd rather play angles then beat the game straight up... look at it this way...if the dealer is flashing cards, he could also be flashing yours...and if players aren't being careful, and you get caught looking at their cards, it could get ugly... simple golden rule...do unto others as you would have them do unto you, let them know they're flashing their cards - and tell the dealer to stop showing cards to everyone if he is... no reason for that kind of horseshit in a tournament...now bald face lying is acceptable...LOL ---------------- I'm like a wino with a twenty dollar bill, forever and eternally yours. - Bill Mallonee | ||
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| Re: Etiquette re. looking at dealt & neighbours cards., Dan Contreras, 12. Feb 2003 12:01 | ||
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| I will always warn my neighbors if they are flashing their cards. If I saw a dealer pitching cards in such a way as to allow downcards to be seen, I would ask the floorpeople to take a look. (You never know, they might be doing it on purpose.) Personally, I like to play the game straight up and help inexperienced players with cardroom etiquette and procedures, and I also will do whatever I can to help the casino spread an honest game. You just never know when there are players at your table who look to take advantage of these inexperienced players and dealers by sneaking peeks or purposely front loading. | ||
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| Re: Etiquette re. looking at dealt & neighbours cards., stdioh, 12. Feb 2003 16:13 | ||
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| I look at it this way: 1) A player who is exposing his cards is probably a BBPP (that's Bad Bad Poker Player). As much as I would like to know his cards I can probably beat him honestly and if I can see them then so can everybody else. I'd rather let him not get totally screwed and tell him that he's showing his cards so that he'll be back in the cardroom and I can make money off him when I'm not sitting next door. 2) If a card is flashed and I see it, I say, "I saw that card." Simple rule. The vast majority won't help me and the vast majority will be flashed at other people. That's just a question of fairness...stop the dealers from flashing cards. If a dealer is doing horrible things, then I agree with the post above; it could be intentional. I won't inform the boss, but I will say to the dealer (and to the table), you're exposing the cards when you deal. Simple...he'll stop either way and at least the game can be honest while I'm in it...though I've never had a dealer do this to me. 3) There is an exception - the sunglasses exception. Some players wear sunglasses to the table. I myself like to wear my lightly tinted prescription sunglasses, primarilly because my eyes are sensitive to light, but I'll admit that I like to conceal my tells with them too. It seems that some players understand the value of wearing sunglasses, but think nothing of wearing sunglasses with a high mirror shine. I've played opponents who don't squeeze their cards and show two full cards reflected in high mirror sunglasses. I figure that anybody at the table can look at these cards, so I don't think I'm being that immoral by noticing them. Really, the guy is screwing himself over because he's trying to prevent us from reading his hand and it is backfiring to literally let us read his hand. So when this happens, I won't say anything...unless he's a real sweet guy...in which case I'll catch him on the way to the can and mention that I can 'almost' see his cards in his glasses and that he should watch out...because hey...I still don't want that kind of edge over nice guys. 4) Lastly, the written and unwritten rule. I think that it is either a written on unwritten rule in a card room of "show one, show all." If one player in the hand (and depending on the room, out of the hand) sees your cards, then you have to show them to the whole table. I think that the onus is on the player to be honest about this, but by the same token, I don't think you'll get tossed for glancing out of the corner of your eye...it's not like you're putting a glass on the table strategically and peeking at the reflection or leaning over or back grossly. Funny though that the same techniques you use to look like you're not paying attention to other players' cards in blackjack work. I would also suggest to get to know these methods as well and make sure nobody is using them on you. Sorry to be so ridiculously verbose, but that's my take on this moral issue. | ||
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| Re: Etiquette re. looking at dealt & neighbours cards., Hinxy, 12. Feb 2003 18:39 | ||
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| I agree with Dan C.....I always tell people when they are inadvertantly showing cards.....I would also do as Dan suggested regarding the dealer(haven't really seen that) | ||
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| Re: Etiquette re. looking at dealt & neighbours cards., NickZack, 13. Feb 2003 04:57 | ||
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| I guess that based on your responses that I am an angle shooter. If a player is always shuffling his cards and I can get a look at them, I do. Sometimes all that I can tell is that one of them is black but if the flop is all red then that is useful information. I also look ahead of me before I act and see if players look like they are going to play or not. If grandpa picks his cards up too high and I can see them without any effort I look. If a player in front of me has a habit of making a huge hand motion to check when he has a big hand I use that knowledge. Ashamed in Ohio (or maybe playing to win), Mike | ||
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| Re: Etiquette re. looking at dealt & neighbours cards., stdioh, 13. Feb 2003 08:01 | ||
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| It's not angle shooting to look at people's pre-tells. One way that I know I want to sit at a table is when I know what 7 or 8 people will do before they do it preflop. Most of my edge comes from raising inferior cards when I know that I can steal the blinds, etc. An early or mid position raise gets a lot of respect when it is folded to the blinds and sometimes all the players yet to act are already halfway to mucking when I make it. That's not an angle...just playing attentively and reading well. | ||
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