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Server Time: 2/11/2012 2:14:36 PM PACIFIC |
 KQ question, David O'Connor, 9. Feb 2003 14:39 | ||
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| hey guys, i was just in a live tourney at a card club, and limped in in early position with KQ offsuit, at the 200-400 level. i had 2600 in chips, and everyone just called. The flop came 9 J Q, and i bet, and got raised by the last player(there were 3 of us in the pot.) i though for awhile, and thought that this player, while i knew very little about him, migtht not be screwing around in this spot. I thought it likely that he had QJ or K 10, but, i am a novice, and had a hard time folding, so i called. the turn came another queen, so i had 3 queens, but if my opponent did have QJ, then he now had a full house. the river was a blank, and after calling my opp[onent down, as he bet the turn and river, he showed me QJ for a full house, and took the pot. my best guess is that i should have folded on the flop when he raised me, but sometimes i fold in situations like this and i had the best hand, it is very hard for me to know what the right move is. i mean, it would be very easyt o fold one pair hands evrytime i get raised, but i want to learn to play bettetr then that, as sometimes a player is just bluffing, or likes to raise with top pair, medium kicker or whatever. All thoughts are welcome, thank yu-David O'Connor | ||
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| Re: KQ question, Piers Majestyk, 9. Feb 2003 19:25 | ||
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| probably should have folded before flop and it would have saved you from the problems you encountered. KQ off is a highly overrated hand in early position in my opinion, fold and wait for a better opportunity. | ||
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| Re: KQ question, noiseboy, 10. Feb 2003 09:05 | ||
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| You should probably throw that away in EP, especially unsuited. In tourneys, you want to stay away from dominated hands in early position. For instance, even if the guy didn't get lucky and pull the FH, you still would have trouble knowing you had the best hand. When the Queen comes, if someone plays back at you, what are you going to do? Someone has an overpair or AQor even pocket QQ. If the king comes, and someone plays back at you, same problem with AK or AA or KK. Also, the blinds weren't so high that you were completely desperate, you could have just waited for the button and hoped for a better hand in position. However, if the blinds were so high that they were going to eat you, and you decide to go in with KQ, you should raise and knock some people out, and just cross your fingers that nobody has AA KK QQ AK or AQ. This is a desperation move however, when the only alternative is getting blinded out. Hope this helps, I'm not a super tournament player yet, just in the process of adapting to tourneys from ring games myself, so I've been reading up. | ||
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| Re: KQ question, Dan Contreras, 10. Feb 2003 17:45 | ||
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| My thoughts on KQo from early position in a tournament are vastly different from a ring game. Limping with KQo as the limits go up in a tournament is begging for trouble in my opinion. I would fold with this hand in a limit tournament the vast majority of the time and raise when if I had my opponents outstacked and afraid to tangle with me w/o a monster hand. I would also raise with it if I was in danger of being blinded out. In any case, I would want to take the blinds down, I don't really want to see a flop. Either way, your opponent with QJ should have a very hard time calling you. In your hand description, you got raised on the flop. I would have put my opponent on a better hand than KQ and folded. Even if he is just semi-bluffing with a straight draw, it simply costs you too many chips to find out and you can't buy any more. Thanks, dc on 9. Feb 2003 14:39 David O'Connor wrote: > hey guys, i was just in a live tourney at a card club, and limped in in early > position with KQ offsuit, at the 200-400 level. i had 2600 in chips, and > everyone just called. The flop came 9 J Q, and i bet, and got raised by the > last player(there were 3 of us in the pot.) i though for awhile, and thought > that this player, while i knew very little about him, migtht not be screwing > around in this spot. I thought it likely that he had QJ or K 10, but, i am a > novice, and had a hard time folding, so i called. the turn came another queen, > so i had 3 queens, but if my opponent did have QJ, then he now had a full house. > the river was a blank, and after calling my opp[onent down, as he bet the turn > and river, he showed me QJ for a full house, and took the pot. my best guess is > that i should have folded on the flop when he raised me, but sometimes i fold in > situations like this and i had the best hand, it is very hard for me to know > what the right move is. i mean, it would be very easyt o fold one pair hands > evrytime i get raised, but i want to learn to play bettetr then that, as > sometimes a player is just bluffing, or likes to raise with top pair, medium > kicker or whatever. All thoughts are welcome, thank yu-David O'Connor | ||
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| interesting..., BreadnButter, 10. Feb 2003 23:14 | ||
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| Another disappointing result from playing KQ off OUT OF POSITION. Interesting? | ||
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| Re: interesting..., Dan Contreras, 11. Feb 2003 11:02 | ||
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| on 10. Feb 2003 23:14 BreadnButter wrote: > > Another disappointing result from playing KQ off OUT OF POSITION. > Interesting? I figured you might respond, BnB! Interesting only in that how you play in a ring game differs vastly from how you would play in a tournament. I notice many of your strategy notes apply much better to a tournament setting as the limits are rising than to a regular juicy ring game. Also, the poster limped from early position with KQ in a tournament as the blinds were coming up. I would never do that in a ring game and doing that in a tournament is simply suicide in my opinion. In a ring game, it's different, you can make some moves with KQ (not limping up front!), as long as the nut-hunters don't call or reraise, which they would ONLY do with a premium hand. | ||
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| Re: interesting..., BreadnButter, 13. Feb 2003 21:09 | ||
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| LOL I just couldnt resist throwing that one in!!! BreadnButter | ||
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| Re: KQ question, stdioh, 11. Feb 2003 12:33 | ||
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| I'm going to avoid the discussion of what hands to limp with in what position as a) it is not the question you asked and b) it depends on stack sizes. Let's assume that everything is set up as you have said. Your top trips is a big hand. Now, if there was no preflop raise, then you can be fairly confident that nobody is holding AQ and when you see that other queen come up, your chances of somebody having a bigger queen go way down. So now there's a much higher chance of this guy having KT than of him having QJ or Q9. Really, Q9, QJ, and KT are the only hands that beat you, so it becomes a question of your read. I can't tell you how to read a player, outside of standard things that he is doing. When it comes down to, "what is the chance that he has this big hand?" type stuff, a general rule of thumb for me is this: If he needs precisely 1 card that is left, plus one of 2 cards (2 ways of making a beating me hand) then I think I'm pretty safe. If he has many ways to beat me and is betting strong then I am probably screwed. In this case, there is 1 way for the guy to have a queen, but lots of 9's and J's left. There are also tonnes of ways for him to have the straight. So unless your read of the guy at the table tells you something, I would release the hand. Were it a ring game, it would be an easy one to call down, but in a tournament, it is much more important to not lose than it is to win. -Doooook | ||
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