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Server Time: 10/11/2008 12:51:50 PM PACIFIC |
 No limit mistake ?, chasepoker, 5. Feb 2003 06:16 | ||
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| Situation in tourny yesterday, how wrong did i play it ? No limit tourny Payout 1st 50 % 2nd 30%3rd 20% (yes it was online!) 5 people left in, blinds 100/200 ante 25 ( up every 15 mins ) I was second with 2600 out of 13500 chips, leader with 5400, other guy with 2000, 2 others with 1500. I believe ( obviously incorrectly after the decision i made ! ) i am one of the better players left. I am on the button to my right is chip leader with 5000 ( who has been raising every hand -winning uncontested) makes it 500, i with AKs raise another 500 ( to 1000) blinds fold. Original raiser goes all in leaving me to call another 1600 ( with the pot now at 3400 ). I mull it over and then call, He shows me JJ and i lose. Options for me 1) Should i have folded after he made it 500 and tried to wait for the others to get knocked out ? 2) Should i have re-raised all in after his raise ?( i think he would have called ) 3) Should i have called pre flop and then got out if nothing flops? 4) Should i have done what i did ? I am thinking that i maybe should have just flat called his raise , which might have allowed the blinds in , and then folded if nothing flops. I am not one for calling AKs that often but did the circumstances justify it ? Any advice appreciated. | ||
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| Re: No limit mistake ?, Andrew Wells, 5. Feb 2003 08:35 | ||
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| Two players have to get eliminated, and no one is in immediate danger of getting blinded out. You have the chip leader who is playing aggressive on your right. With these conditions you should be looking for opportunities to play back at those raises. AKs is too strong to fold here. I don't like giving the blinds about 7:2 and 14:3 odds if you call, as they are just going to reraise all-in if they have a playable hand. I would reraise all-in before the flop so that hopfully they will pass and thereby not improve the odds for the chip leader to call your all-in move. Maybe the chip leader would call anyway, but your small reraise made it too easy. Use what leverage you have with that second stack and try to pick up the pot. Adding 925 to your stack is a healthy 7% of all the chips in play, you don't mind taking it here uncontested. Remember that the chip leader shouldn't really want to tangle with your stack until the table is down to three players either. You're only an underdog to a pocket pair before the flop, and against someone raising every hand you're a huge favorite to have the better cards. Even if you were raised by a pocket pair this time, by going all-in you have the possibility of getting a small pair to fold. If you get called, you're only a substantial underdog to AA or KK. Move all-in without hesitation. If you get played with you have a decent chance to take over the chip lead, and are in much better shape to cash in this spot. | ||
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| Re: No limit mistake ?, flintsword, 22. Feb 2003 10:59 | ||
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| Super analysis of the situation. I had virtually the same situation and got toasted. Thank you for a clear view of this situation. Unlike some yahoos on this site, you put real effor into your comments and I want you to know it is appreciated. | ||
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| Re: No limit mistake ?, PiersS, 5. Feb 2003 14:57 | ||
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| After you call the pot is 1300 and you have 2100. Raising another 500 looks pointless to me, if you raise go all in and put him to the test. Given your assertion that he is raising almost every hand then he is likely to fold the all in bet. Alternately if with position you reckon you can outplay him on the flop, call and take it from there. This assumes you are a better flop player than him, if not go all in. | ||
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| Re: No limit mistake ?, Mark, 5. Feb 2003 22:28 | ||
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| I'm not a very experienced no-limit player, but I would have definately re-raised all-in. with the chip leader constantly raising, the situation was perfect for an all-in move. A-K is a great starting hand in those circumstances. What else could you wait for? 1. The small stacks aren't going to get blinded out for a long while. and 2. there aren't many better hands you can get. Mark | ||
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| Re: No limit mistake ?, chasepoker, 6. Feb 2003 17:33 | ||
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| Thanks for the answers ! I now believe i should have either re-raised all in or just flat called. My biggest point i guess was that if you think you are one of the better players at the table you what odds do you decline in order to ensure you are still in the game ? | ||
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| Re: No limit mistake ?, Mark, 6. Feb 2003 18:00 | ||
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| > Thanks for the answers ! > > I now believe i should have either re-raised all in or just flat called. My biggest point > i guess was that if you think you are one of the better players at the table you what odds > do you decline in order to ensure you are still in the game ? I don't know the answer to your question ( i don't think there is one), but here is my 2 cents... What you're asking sounds very much like a "it depends" question. If a tight passive player raises you, you need huge odds to call, but if a loose -aggressive player bets you can raise with a wider variety of hands. In Cardplayer Capetelli ( ?) usually writes about poker tournaments and reviews all sorts of all-in hands that he played or saw. If you review a couple of his past articles you might gain some more insight into what pros will go all in with. Also, about half of the "hand of the week" articles ( i forget who writes them, Neuygen, i think) are about all-in hands. mark | ||
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| Re: No limit mistake ?, chasepoker, 7. Feb 2003 04:40 | ||
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| Cheers for that , where can i get these articles, are they on-line or is it a magazine publication ( i am in England ) Thanks in advance > > In Cardplayer Capetelli ( ?) usually writes about poker tournaments and reviews all sorts of > all-in hands that he played or saw. If you review a couple of his past articles you might | ||
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| Re: No limit mistake ?, Mark, 7. Feb 2003 08:40 | ||
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| it is a FREE online magazine. go to www.cardplayer.com there is tons of information there. but go to the archives and look through the previous magazines. There are lots of good articles but Capatelli (spelling?) and Phil Helmuth ( he writes the "Hand of the week" articles) are probably the writers who you want to read - on this topic. mark | ||
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| Re: No limit mistake ?, flintsword, 22. Feb 2003 11:04 | ||
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| You might also want to read the Paul Samuels articles which deals with the math of nl poker, with some interesting analysis of "all-in" scenerios. The link is: http://www.pokerpages.com/articles/archives/samuel16.htm and to see his other 15 articles, just change the number in the adress from "16" to any number from "1" to "15". He is from England so it is going to be right up your alley. cheers. | ||
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| Re: No limit mistake ?, aragorn_ii, 7. Feb 2003 16:48 | ||
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| You should also invest in a great tourny book.Tournament Poker by David Sklansky has quite a bit devoted to AK in no limit.As for the right play IMHO you go all in and put the pressure on the other guy. | ||
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