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Server Time: 9/6/2008 4:49:18 PM PACIFIC |
 24 outs in omaha8, chris nelson, 22. Jan 2003 18:27 | ||
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| B & M 3-6 omaha 8 or better game with a kill. Kill pot. Bets 6-12 .My pre-flop SB hand is AcQc23. I call $6. 5 Callers. Pot $30. Flop Ks8c4c. I check. BB bets. Next player raises ( a fairly loose, aggressive player but I've only played with him once). I call. I have the nut flush draw and the nut low draw with counterfite protection. 24 outs. With 24/21 and 4/1 pot odds, I call. It gets capped. $12 more, I call. 3 players myself included. Incidentally, BB goes all in on the flop. Turn a J. I now have 3 more outs with the inside straight draw but two of my outs make a possible full house. I check. Loose Aggressive bets. I call. River Jc. With $15 dollars left and $42 in the pot I fold. BB wins with king high flush and loose aggressive had 6c5c. I folded the winner because I put one of them on a set. Was a raise in order at the turn given that I had 27 outs? I prefer to raise on the turn but am new to omaha. Please analyze my play. Thank you, Chris | ||
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| Re: 24 outs in omaha8, Rolf Slotboom, 22. Jan 2003 20:03 | ||
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| Dear Chris, Even though I'm not an Omaha/8 expert by any means, I will still give you my opinion, based on the information you have given. You ask if maybe you should have been more aggressive with your hand on the turn, given all the outs you had. IMO, you could, and probably should, have been more aggressive on every street. Preflop, you had a big hand, and given that raising would not chase away any customers (all having called one bet already) raising for value would definitely have been correct. Now, when you get a flop this big it's probably jamming time, and simply checking and calling would not have been my choice of play. Then on the turn you check and call again, and on the river you check and fold the ace-high flush for one flat bet, right? So, despite holding a huge hand on every street, you don't make a single action yourself- you only check and call, responding to others. This is not good play, this is not maximizing your edge. What's more, it seems to me that your calculation of the pot size is incorrect. With significant post-flop action, and a preflop pot size of $30, the pot size after the turn can never be $42- it should be in the range of $90 (this being a kill pot, with a flop raise and a bet on the turn). One more thing. I believe you said you were relatively new to Omaha/8. If you come from a limit hold'em background, it may seem strange to start jamming (raising for value) on the flop when you have nothing yet, when 'all' you have is a draw- but often, this is the right course of action. Anyway, this is how I see things from a distance. Good luck to you, Rolf. | ||
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| Re: 24 outs in omaha8, chris nelson, 22. Jan 2003 20:42 | ||
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| Rolf, thanks for the reply. I was in a hurry when I wrote first. By the turn there was $102 in the pot. I don't bet for value enough yet but will work on that. Thank you, Chris | ||
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| Re: 24 outs in omaha8, chris nelson, 22. Jan 2003 21:09 | ||
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| I meant $42 invested in the pot which may not be an important consideration | ||
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| Re: 24 outs in omaha8, Andrew Wells, 23. Jan 2003 14:01 | ||
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| My first impression is that you have more than enough drawing opportunities to checkraise on the flop. This probably won't slow down the loose/agressive player, but it will put some pressure on players behind him, and will let you see whether you are up against good low draw hands when you lead out on the turn. If you play it this way, you're probably only going to get called by draws (even the loose cannon isn't likely to raise again without a hand here). If you get raised on the turn, then maybe there is a set out there, but you're still playing. Back to the actual hand, you really have to pay off the river and overcall with so much in the pot. Even though you should only be drawing to the nuts, you did make something of a hand here. Especially on the high side, you shouldn't always fear there's a quality hand out there. It would be different if you made a second nut low with so much action, then you might be justified in not overcalling on the river. Still, it would be a tough laydown in a low limit game. | ||
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