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Server Time: 1/8/2009 12:40:27 PM PACIFIC |
 Wanted to Drop in and Say "Hi!", Tad Perry, 21. Jan 2003 23:01 | ||
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| To Mike and Everyone, I hope this post meets conditions and so on and so on. I know Mike is taking some heat and I know there's a lot of commotion going on, but I want to assure people to trust their own inner selves a bit here. What do I mean? I mean that I can see signs that recent upheavals have been so bad, that RGP has actually *improved* each time it convulses! It's as if people go through down periods where they realize how wrong they were. This is not kidding. Unfortunately, people like Mike, myself, and others have to take the main brunt, but as I said, it seems the perpetrators themselves go through periods of reflection and reversal themselves. For instance, Groan isn't after my every post anymore, now is he? He may still believe what he does, but he's not mucking up RGP with it. Ramashiva is still his fun self and settled right in. This is what I mean. So don't hold grudges and aim negativity at any of them. I'll try the same, but I'm gonna say it like it is as long as this "anything goes" mentality holds. So, people like Mike and myself, standing up for themselves, and doing what they think best (at each decision point) is playing itself out for the best, in my opinion. As you may know, I was a famous deserter of RGP myself for over what I considered disrespect at the time, but it's nothing like what's out there now, ready to assail me at the drop of a hat! In any case, I returned due to a complete reversal of my thinking on many matters, but I'm not beyond leaving and joining a place like this over a reversal of opinion either. Then you could all learn to play poker from TWO guys who learned to play poker in Seattle-area bowling alleys! Lol. As for the free for all at RGP, I'm sticking with that for the time being, however, I want to point out that there really never has been free speech before Usenet. It was promised us hundreds of years ago. Now we have it. Soon we'll know what to do with it. The Netiquette guide before most Internet users even arrived is largely ignored, and yet it is so wise in what it says. * Try to come to understandings. * Don't assume the other side is angry, or upset. * Don't be insulting. It just takes some getting used to why those wise words about free speech were wise! Once everyone gets wise, it'll be good. Trust me! And if any of y'all wanna know how to really play poker. Well, you know who to ask! As for Mike Caro, luv ya buddy! Regards, Tad Perry | ||
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| Re: Wanted to Drop in and Say "Hi!", Mike Caro, 22. Jan 2003 09:58 | ||
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| Hi, Tad -- Thanks for posting here. I hope you will visit us often. I agree with you that RGP has its place, and I will probably post there again in the future. I'm not doing so right now. The problem is that many people who are well-known and who want to contribute there feel that the risk isn't worth it. They don't want to spend many hours each day answering totally bizarre attacks from anonymous posters (some juveniles, no doubt) who are just amusing themselves. For those who prefer high stress and do not have careers that can be easily damaged because they are targets of kooks, RPG is a fun place to visit sometimes. For those who want to contribute without stress, we have UPF. For those who want a taste of both -- well, that's fine, too. I believe this moderated forum CONTRIBUTES TO FREE SPEECH by adding an opportunity for some who otherwise couldn't comfortably risk being heard at all. It. Straight Flushes, Mike Caro (if anyone chooses to post this clarification of my thinking to RGP, permission is given) | ||
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| Re: Wanted to Drop in and Say "Hi!", William Coleman, 22. Jan 2003 16:37 | ||
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| Let me get this straight, Mike, you are contributing to free speech by placing severe restrictions on what can even be said on UPF??? By providing a safe environment for weak-kneed sissies who cannot stand being criticised? If someone is an obvious idiot, and doesn't know what they are talking about, I cannot just tell them that. I have to figure out a polite way to say that. You end your post by inviting someone to repost your comments on RGP. Looks like you want the convenience of being able to post on RGP, yet not reply to criticism because you do not monitor RGP anymore. You want me to repost all your UPF posts on RGP, Mike? Like I did with your response to Les Oremson? I would be happy to do that for you, Mike. Speaking of Les Oremson, can I ask you a few questions, or do you consider that your flat denial closes the case? Here are the questions. Answer them or not. 1. Do you know anyone named Les Oremson, from the LA poker scene? 2. If not, have you ever heard the name before? 3. When was the last time you were in the restaurant at the Hollywood Park Casino, to the best of your recollection? 4. If you know Les Oremson, have you ever been in this restaurant with him? 5. If so, when was the most recent occasion? 6. Have you ever had any conversations with the Schulman family or employees of Card Player concerning the destruction of RGP, and the creation of RGPM? William Coleman (ramashiva) on 22. Jan 2003 09:58 Mike Caro wrote: > Hi, Tad -- > > Thanks for posting here. I hope you will visit us often. > > I agree with you that RGP has its place, and I will probably post there again in the > future. I'm not doing so right now. The problem is that many people who are > well-known and who want to contribute there feel that the risk isn't worth it. They > don't want to spend many hours each day answering totally bizarre attacks from > anonymous posters (some juveniles, no doubt) who are just amusing themselves. > > For those who prefer high stress and do not have careers that can be easily damaged > because they are targets of kooks, RPG is a fun place to visit sometimes. For those > who want to contribute without stress, we have UPF. For those who want a taste of > both -- well, that's fine, too. > > I believe this moderated forum CONTRIBUTES TO FREE SPEECH by adding an opportunity > for some who otherwise couldn't comfortably risk being heard at all. It. > > Straight Flushes, > Mike Caro (if anyone chooses to post this clarification of my thinking to RGP, > permission is given) William Coleman (ramashiva) | ||
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| Re: Wanted to Drop in and Say "Hi!", Mike Caro, 22. Jan 2003 19:25 | ||
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| William -- I am answering your questions in [ brackets ] within your post below. Addiitionally, although your message is intelligent, we would appreciate it if you helped to keep this a stress-free poker zone by being less combative. We are just so in love with each other and our family of friends here that you would hardly believe it. It's almost sickening. Straight Flushes, Mike Caro on 22. Jan 2003 16:37 William Coleman wrote: > Let me get this straight, Mike, you are contributing to free speech by placing severe > restrictions on what can even be said on UPF??? [ MC -- Yes, you are interpreting what I said correctly. This is intended, in part, to be a forum where industry leaders, experts, and casual players alike can mingle in friendly ways. Some of them might not otherwise be able to post because they don't have the time, will, or energy to fight off flames. In that sense, I'm suggesting that we're adding to free speech by allowing other venues to continue unaltered, while adding an additional venue for those who might otherwise choose not to speak at all. ] >By providing a safe environment for > weak-kneed sissies who cannot stand being criticised? If someone is an obvious idiot, > and doesn't know what they are talking about, I cannot just tell them that. I have to > figure out a polite way to say that. [ MC -- Exactly. This is like a house party where invited guests are polite to each other. ] > You end your post by inviting someone to repost your comments on RGP. Looks like you > want the convenience of being able to post on RGP, yet not reply to criticism because you > do not monitor RGP anymore. [ MC -- Yes, I am trying to have my cake and eat it, too. ] > You want me to repost all your UPF posts on RGP, Mike? Like I did with your response to > Les Oremson? I would be happy to do that for you, Mike. [ MC -- I am not asking you or anyone else to post my messages to RGP. My request was in regard to a specific message that concerned that group, but it isn't necessary that it be done. ] > Speaking of Les Oremson, can I ask you a few questions, or do you consider that your flat > denial closes the case? Here are the questions. Answer them or not. > > 1. Do you know anyone named Les Oremson, from the LA poker scene? [ MC -- I do not recognize that name, but perhaps I would recognize him or her in person. ] > > 2. If not, have you ever heard the name before? [ MC -- Possibly, but I can't place it. ] > 3. When was the last time you were in the restaurant at the Hollywood Park Casino, to > the best of your recollection? [ MC -- Probably about May or June, 2002. Maybe even longer ago than that. ] > 4. If you know Les Oremson, have you ever been in this restaurant with him? [ MC -- Even if I know this person from somewhere, I have not been in the restaurant at Hollywood Park with him or her. ] > 5. If so, when was the most recent occasion? > > 6. Have you ever had any conversations with the Schulman family or employees of Card > Player concerning the destruction of RGP, and the creation of RGPM? [ MC -- No. I have been a fan of RGP for a long time, talking it up in my columns, contributing over $1,000 of my own money to stimulate posts, seeing that Planet Poker helped sponsor its events at a cost of $5,000 or more, and having given two keynote speeches at its annual meetings. I do not want it destroyed and would strongly advise anyone NOT to take any action to harm it. I expect to return there in the future. ] > > William Coleman (ramashiva) > > on 22. Jan 2003 09:58 Mike Caro wrote: > > Hi, Tad -- > > > > Thanks for posting here. I hope you will visit us often. > > > > I agree with you that RGP has its place, and I will probably post there again in the > > future. I'm not doing so right now. The problem is that many people who are > > well-known and who want to contribute there feel that the risk isn't worth it. They > > don't want to spend many hours each day answering totally bizarre attacks from > > anonymous posters (some juveniles, no doubt) who are just amusing themselves. > > > > For those who prefer high stress and do not have careers that can be easily damaged > > because they are targets of kooks, RPG is a fun place to visit sometimes. For those > > who want to contribute without stress, we have UPF. For those who want a taste of > > both -- well, that's fine, too. > > > > I believe this moderated forum CONTRIBUTES TO FREE SPEECH by adding an opportunity > > for some who otherwise couldn't comfortably risk being heard at all. It. > > > > Straight Flushes, > > Mike Caro (if anyone chooses to post this clarification of my thinking to RGP, > > permission is given) > William Coleman (ramashiva) > | ||
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| Re: Wanted to Drop in and Say "Hi!", Tad Perry, 22. Jan 2003 20:36 | ||
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| Excellent answers, Mike. Also, I wanted you to know that I personally totally understood your reason for the automated posting. It was probably needed or there would still be Mike Caro's over there causing problems. So don't take the criticisms too hard. The dosage was just about right. On RGP, the attitude is that there are no rules, none at all, and "we like it that way, go away if you don't" and they shove this down everyone's throat quite aggressively while picking on anyone showing a willingness to squirm, but one little post from you and all of a sudden there are rules to follow and procedures and so on. It's just a chance to bash Mike Caro masquerading as concern for the group. I mean, why bash you? Because you respond in an entertaining fashion if they bash you. You don't like it and leave. They love watching you do that. Some of them come right into your own forum and do that to you. You'll have to leave the entire Internet if you don't learn how to deal with it effectively. Anyway, I just don't like the one-way street aspect of how it's an open forum on the one-hand, but not for you. Oh, nooo, not for you. Because if it's a case of "everything goes" over there, then what you did is fine. If everything doesn't go, then let's get rid of the abusive, combative insulting antogonism before attacking the guy who stands up and says so. Who are these nitwits who enjoy the abusive, combative, insulting antagonism anyway? Why is it they think abusive, comative, insulting antagonism is sacred and somehow connected to the roots of free speech? It's because they get off on their hostility. The truth is that their behavior is most definitely connected to a shutting down of the right to free speech. It's through such abuse that rules get written, like those for this forum. They cut off their nose to spite their face over there. Regards, Tad Perry | ||
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