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Server Time: 5/16/2012 9:06:23 PM PACIFIC |
 A hand from Sundays game, Snorbolus, 13. Jan 2003 22:49 | ||
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| I think that I made some mistakes in this $4-8 hold'em hand. Any comments appreciated: The game is wild. There are 3 players who will play any two cards and bet them all the way. As far as I can tell they might as well be making their betting decisions blind. There are also several good, aggressive players at the table who seem to use the insanely aggressive, poor players to start betting wars whenever they think that they have the best of it. I am UTG and raise with Ac Kd UTG +1 (a good, moderately aggressive player) re-raises 4 more callers including all of the maniacs Both blinds fold I call the raise Flop: Kc Xc Xs (no obvious straight possibility but there may have been some chance - 3 of the players in could have anything) I bet Everybody calls Turn: Xc I bet UTG +1 raises 2 (maniacs) call 2 players fold I call the raise River: X(not a club) I check UTG +1 bets The 2 maniacs call What should I put UTG +1 on here? What is my play (A) Fold, (B) Call (C) Re-raise? I am certain that if I re-raise I will get at least 1 caller. Results to follow. Snorbolus | ||
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| Re: A hand from Sundays game, TOM WAGGONER, 14. Jan 2003 02:17 | ||
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| I think that I would just have to call because of the size of the pot. the bettor may have a flush, or he may have the same hand, the maniacs could have anything including two pair, but I would payoff. | ||
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| Re: A hand from Sundays game, CapnD, 14. Jan 2003 09:21 | ||
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| Re-raising is suicide, and folding could be catastrophic. Easy call, but the odds of you winning this hand are pretty damn slim. CapnD | ||
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| Re: A hand from Sundays game, RickyK, 14. Jan 2003 17:01 | ||
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| Close call having to beat 3 other hands in this spot is tough, cant imagine either of the maniacs calling with much less than what you have. It is tough to play games like this where people will call with anything i would go find a nice easy game elsewhere with lots of people who wont make you make such tough ( and costly decisions ), I bet the maniacs were actually pretty decent players getting good odds on bottom pairs over cards, gut straights etc... | ||
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| Re: A hand from Sundays game, Snorbolus, 15. Jan 2003 17:06 | ||
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| Thanks to all who replied. I folded the river. I had put UTG +1 on the flush when he raised the turn, and I thought that even if he didn’t have me beat then at least one of the callers was sure to. It turned out UTG +1 had AKo and won the pot. The two callers both mucked their hands without showing. Whatever they had it couldn’t beat top pair top kicker. In retrospect I think that I was wrong to put UTG +1 on a flush. Not just because he didn’t have one. Also because I had the Ac and I can’t think of a “re-raising an UTG raise” quality hand that would have two clubs and no A. Nevertheless, with 2 overcallers I still wonder if a call here is +EV. All who posted replies seem to think that it is (just about). I have to agree that folding was catastrophic, this time at least. What do you think about my play earlier in the hand? I have been wondering about my pre-flop raise. When I made it I was pretty sure that it would not thin the field any. I was raising for value. I now wonder if I would have been better smooth calling before the flop and then check-raising when I made top pair. At least that would have helped to cut down the odds for all of the chasers I was expecting. Snorbolus | ||
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| Re: A hand from Sundays game, NiceFella, 15. Jan 2003 22:06 | ||
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| This is why I just can't stand to play with maniacs. I would have played this hand just as you did, and it's terribly frustrating to fold when you're sure SOMEONE must have a flush, only to find you've mucked the winner. I find that I am frequently underestimating the foolishness of the maniacs, and mistakenly put them on reasonable hands. With absolutely no information about what the calling stations have, you're driving totally blind. I like your reasoning that UTG+1 might not have a flush because of his preflop reraise. However, I don't know what else you could reasonably put him on, and at a no-foldem table like this, any big suited hand is as good a hand to preflop raise with as any other. It was a bluff raise, and it did manage to get several players out, including you. I'm not sure I agree with his play, but when the pot is huge your concern has to be maximizing your chance to win the pot, and raising served that purpose. When the pot is huge, and I know that I'll lose a showdown, I sometimes lead out with a bet because it might bring a huge windfall. Similarly, it's usually wise to call with anything reasonable on the end when the pot is huge and your opponents are fools. | ||
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| Re: A hand from Sundays game, Uncle1, 16. Jan 2003 12:17 | ||
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| Hey Snorbolus, I just found this forum today, and I wanted to put my 2 cents in even though it is sort of late. It's been discussed that you put UTG+1 on a flush, and that the odds of winning are slim, but I think odds of the hand are being overlooked. The bet on the flop, I have to agree with, but it didn't get people out like you would hope with top pair and gutshot flush draw. The bet on the turn with the third club coming I disagree with, you will not push out a flush here, and you are on the draw. You are in a check and call situation now. When you bet the turn there were 5 people in, meaning there was a 30% chance somone had a flush with random cards, but any club falls on the river and you have the nut flush, giving you nine outs, you are a 1:4 underdog, if you assume someone has a flush, which is what you should assume here to make your decision, so if the pot is over 4 times the size of the bet you have to make you are getting good odds to draw, so you check and don't risk a raise here. When the river came there was a 17.7% chance the flush is there randomly, making you a slight favorite to not be facing a flush. You should check and call the river. I would only fold this hand on the turn if there was a raise and maybe a reraise making it too expensive to draw, but you did have nine outs, and you were a slight favorite on the turn and river to not be facing a flush. | ||
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| Re: A hand from Sundays game, Snorbolus, 17. Jan 2003 08:16 | ||
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| Uncle1, It's never to late to help me with my play. Thanks for you comments. Snorbolus | ||
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| Re: A hand from Sundays game, Fairfax, 20. Jan 2003 11:26 | ||
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| you cannot win this hand. The guy to your left must have at least aa . The pot is so large some will say call but you are better off in mucking. | ||
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