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Server Time: 11/20/2008 4:55:06 AM PACIFIC |
 Did I play this right?, JasonHoldEm, 7. Jan 2003 19:27 | ||
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| Hi everyone, I was lucky enough to win a freeroll tournament (pokerroom.com) and win $50 in the process. I've been playing $5+1 single table (10 player) tournaments since then. I've won one of those, but lost four others :-( My general tournament strategy is to play tight in the early rounds (AA, KK, QQ, AKs, etc), I probably don't defend my blinds as well as I should, but I will defend with more than just the premium hands I usually play with. Anyways, this strategy usually puts me in 3rd-4th with 5 players left. Which is essentially right on the bubble since the top 3 positions are payed. At this point I usually play slightly more agressive to get into the money, but nothing crazy. I think I'm playing things correctly and just getting unlucky. For example, tonight I was in fourth place with around $1100 in chips left with 5 players remaining (8000 total chips). I was in the BB and had AJs. Everyone folded to the button who raised. The SB folded and I called (the guy had been blind stealing all night). Flop came Q, J, T with two hearts (my suit). At that point I had $300 left to bet, a pair of Jacks, a draw to the nut flush, and a draw to a straight (and even a royal at that), I went all-in hoping that if he was trying to blind steal with junk he'd fold, he called. Turn and river were 4, 9 offsuit and he beat me with A8o straight. My question is basically should I have folded my AJs Pre-flop? This seems pretty ridiculous, but in all of my four losses I've lost in similar fashion, so I'm wondering if there's some tournament strategy I'm missing here or if I'm just unlucky. Also, do you think that I should be playing more hands early (other than just the premium hands). I watch carefully, and there are very few hands (maybe two or three) that I would have won (outright), by playing what I had...maybe play more from late position to try and steal the pot with a marginal hand if everyone's checking? If so what should I play from the button? Thanks for your advice, jasonHoldEm | ||
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| Re: Did I play this right?, Bluerabbit, 7. Jan 2003 20:36 | ||
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| on 7. Jan 2003 19:27 JasonHoldEm wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I was lucky enough to win a freeroll tournament (pokerroom.com) and win $50 in > the process. I've been playing $5+1 single table (10 player) tournaments since > then. I've won one of those, but lost four others :-( > > My general tournament strategy is to play tight in the early rounds (AA, KK, > QQ, AKs, etc). This usually puts me in 3rd-4th with 5 players left. Which is > essentially right on the bubble since the top 3 positions are played. At this > point I usually play slightly more agressive, but nothing crazy. I think I'm > playing things correctly and just getting unlucky. > > For example, tonight I was in fourth place with around $1100 in chips left with > 5 players remaining (8000 total chips). I was in the BB and had AJs. Everyone > folded to the button who raised. The SB folded and I called (the guy had been > blind stealing all night). Its really too appealing to play this hand. It would take extreme discipline to fold your hand on the flop. But with 5 players left and you have a drawing hand (and second pair,) not a leading hand, thats what you have to do, fold. My experience is when your up against an attacking player, you are folding when the chronic aggressor has a small edge or no edge(playing outside his cycle) and when you call the chronic aggressor , he has something to play with(playing inside his cycle). Pschologically ,this takes a toll on you ,and you automatically think that the aggressor has nothing. You say damn the torpedos, put the blinders on ,its all in for you. There are two more concepts that would help you get in the money but I'm not saying. So yah, play the preflop, fold the flop. If its no limit and he raises you a substantial amount throw it away preflop. Your not the aggressor and AJ suited is still only a drawing hand. but damn those Jacks and flush draw, are sure persuasive. How can you fight temptation? Bluerabbit > > Flop came Q, J, T with two hearts (my suit). At that point I had $300 left to > bet, a pair of Jacks and a draw to the nut flush (and even a royal at that), I > went all-in hoping that if he was trying to blind steal with junk he'd fold, he > called. Turn and river were 4, 9 offsuit and he beat me with A8o straight. > > My question is basically should I have folded my AJs Pre-flop? This seems > pretty ridiculous, but in all of my four losses I've lost in similar fashion, so > I'm wondering if there's some tournament strategy I'm missing here or if I'm > just unlucky. > > Also, do you think that I should be playing more hands early (other than just > the premium hands). I watch carefully, and there are very few hands (maybe two > or three) that I would have won (outright), by playing what I had...maybe play > more from late position to try and steal the pot with a marginal hand if > everyone's checking? If so what should I play from the button? > > Thanks for your advice, > jasonHoldEm | ||
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| Re: Did I play this right?, Bluerabbit, 8. Jan 2003 09:58 | ||
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| Everybody seems to be focusing on only two players out of 5. The players out of the hand factor into your equation to pass or play. If two players are ready to be blinded out after your blinds folding KK preflop is a strategy to be considered. If you see the flop with AJ suited you should check to gain more information and then bet or fold depending on what your opponent gives away. Your going to be all in if you lead the betting or if you check and call. If you folded your blind preflop that gives you 700 points and the ability to see five more hands. The blinds being 400 points it is quite common to see two play with 2000 points each get knocked out before the blind returns to you. Your objective is not to win a hand or teach an aggressive player a lesson, but to place in the money | ||
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| Re: Did I play this right?, Mano, 7. Jan 2003 21:45 | ||
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| If I think someone is overly aggressive and constantly stealing in this position, I would raise him pre-flop. You are giving him a free shot to draw out on you with that crap. Don't over do it, but when a player of this type raises and you have a decent hand you need to pop him back or you are giving away too much IMHO. | ||
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| Re: Did I play this right?, Lee Vaughn, 8. Jan 2003 07:27 | ||
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| If calling preflop is only going to leave you with $300 in chips, I would think you either go all in right then or fold. (folding against this guy shouldn't be an option.) After the flop the most it can cost him is $300 to play the rest of the hand, and the pot is probably somewhere around $1900 so he will most likely call with almost anything. (even though his gut shot was tough, his odds were about right.) I think your overall strategy is probably fine, but you might need to take advantage of position to pick up a few more chips. If it is folded around to you in late position you should usually play more hands, and almost always raise with the ones you choose to raise. Towards the end blind stealing becomes very important. The blinds are high in relation to stack sizes by that time, and if you are just waiting for top hands the blinds will eat you up. Hope that helps, Lee | ||
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| Re: Did I play this right?, Mark, 8. Jan 2003 07:46 | ||
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| Hi Jason, I play those $5 tourneys too and it does suck to get knocked out 4th/5th after 45 mins or so of hard graft. From what you said you were at the 400/800 limits with 1100 left and in the big blind, so already down to 700. The guy would (and should) probably raise you wiith a large number of hands which you are already beating so I would have thought that re-raising would be the best option. They will still call you however (this is PokerRoom) so it wouldn't have helped in this case but it puts you in a stronger position in general. The only case I could see for folding is if someone else is in much worse shape then you and could get blinded out in the next 4 hands. Probably see you on PokerRoom some time. Good luck. Mark. | ||
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| Re: Did I play this right?, Andrew Wells, 8. Jan 2003 07:53 | ||
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| Mano has the right idea here, if you're going to play the hand get it all-in before the flop. You were at 400-800 limit, so if you fold to the late position raise and don't have anything playable the next hand (small blind), you will only have T500 left for the next three free hands, and no way to win one without a flop yourself. AJs may be the best starting hand you're going to see out of the next five; regardless you're going to have to win a showdown. Unless there are two other players who would be all-in on their blinds, it's not worth passing with AJs this late in a one table tourney. Even then, you're probably better off waiting for two bust outs with T2400 than T500. Having seen the flop, going all-in is automatic. You may want to try and play some drawing hands with or without position in the first two rounds where the value of chips is at its lowest, particulary a potential flush draw. Consider hands like Q9s T8s 87s even from early position, without necessarily expecting to get multiway action. Taking a pot or two with one of these early gives you the flexibility in the middle rounds that make it worthwhile. | ||
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| Re: Did I play this right?, Vin, 8. Jan 2003 19:42 | ||
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| I can't believe he called your all-in with an overcard and a gutshot draw. In my opinion you played the hand well. It sounds like you were pretty dam sure that your AJs had his hand beat so I have to give you credit for that but why not pop him back before the flop as someone else suggested? Then you turn into the agressor. I'm not saying go all-in but if you pop him back and he just calls you can then move in on him on the flop. I've also noticed, and am wondering if anyone else has seen this phenomenon, that a lot of bad players get suspicious when you move all-in. For some reason a lot of them see this as a weakness and they will call you with bad hands. | ||
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| Re: Did I play this right?, wolverine, 10. Jan 2003 09:11 | ||
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| I don't think it really mattered whether you just called his raise pre-flop or raise him all in pre-flop, if he was playing aggressive the whole game then he's going to call you pre-flop or on the flop for only 300 more, with another 1000 in chips you would have been able to scare him out of it pre-flop but not with what you had. With those chips it was either time to spin the wheel and hope that he did in fact have nothing or fold and hope to pull a better hand real soon, which was probably unlikely. | ||
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| Thanks..., JasonHoldEm, 13. Jan 2003 17:24 | ||
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| Thanks for your tips and suggestions folks, I bought sklansky's tournament book, and have been applying the principles (gap concept, etc), my play (and finishes) have improved dramatically...another couple weeks and I should be ready for the WSOP. (yeah, right) thanks, jasonHoldEm | ||
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