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Server Time: 11/20/2009 8:35:52 PM PACIFIC |
 Defending against the free card, Vincent Merlino, 28. Dec 2002 15:12 | ||
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| Suppose the following situation comes up in a hold' em game: The game is loose and somewhat agressive. You are in middle position with Kc Qd. Under the gun limps in; you raise and the button cold calls and so does the big blind and under the gun. The flop comes Qh Jh 2s. It is checked to you and you bet out. The button raises; the big blind and under the gun drop. Here is where my question comes up. Is the preferred way to play this: 1. Re-raise 2. Call and then bet the turn if a scare card does not fall such as a heart or any possible straight card. I prefer the second choice for a few reasons. I believe that if you re-raise you put yourself in an akward position on the turn. If a scare card falls and you bet out and get raised you probably are going to have to fold since your opponent has probably caught what he/she was looking for(or they already had you beaten). If you just call the raise on the flop and then bet out on the turn if a scare card does not fall and you don't get raised you can be pretty sure that your pair is good. On the other hand if you get raised you have an easy fold becuase it is a rare player who will semi-bluff twice in a row. Anyone see otherwise? | ||
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| Re: Defending against the free card, Andrew Wells, 28. Dec 2002 19:48 | ||
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| I would probably just call the raise, planning to bet if a blank falls on the turn. I prefer to play it this way since a king which makes me two pairs may also be a key card for the player on the button. If I were holding something like ATs with the same action, and the flop came Th 9h 3c, then I would prefer taking it to three bets on the flop. I also prefer just calling the raise on the flop when I'm against someone heads-up who does not generally take free cards and just continues to bet the draw again if checked to on the turn. In that case I would be looking to usually play for a checkraise on the turn. Also don't take it to three bets on the flop against a loose aggressive player who would be inclined to raise back with a good draw. This leaves you in a more difficult spot on the turn should you need to bet if a blank comes. | ||
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| Re: Defending against the free card, Charles Kincy, 31. Dec 2002 00:47 | ||
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| Against loose/agressive players, the preferred play is to call and then check/raise a safe turn card. They will bet no matter what on the turn, and you should punish them. Against better players, you should just fire away right in to them on the turn. If they raise, fold (unless the pot is enormous). Of course, you are now vulnerable to a semi-bluff raise on the turn--a player cagy enough to bluff twice in this way on occasion cannot be beaten when you are out of position. Without a tell you are cooked. Don't even try to fight it. | ||
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| Re: Defending against the free card, -t, 31. Dec 2002 07:44 | ||
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| I dont really know but call and bet out on the turn regardless sounds ok to me | ||
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| Re: Defending against the free card, limon, 2. Jan 2003 12:36 | ||
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| out of position three bet now. how can you so solidly put him on a draw. he could have alot of other shit hands you have dominated. never worry about a raise til you get raised. you limit players are all weak tight. | ||
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| Re: Defending against the free card, Snorbolus, 2. Jan 2003 15:41 | ||
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| I would go with the call and then bet a non-scary turn option. Perhaps I am weak tight, but I can’t think of very many “shit hands I (you) have dominated” to put him on here. He did cold call an UTG limper, middle position raiser and then raise the flop. An ace high flush draw seems very plausible though. Snorbolus on 2. Jan 2003 12:36 limon wrote: > out of position three bet now. how can you so solidly put him on a draw. he could have > alot of other shit hands you have dominated. never worry about a raise til you get raised. > you limit players are all weak tight. on 28. Dec 2002 15:12 Vincent Merlino wrote: > Suppose the following situation comes up in a hold' em game: > > The game is loose and somewhat agressive. You are in middle position with Kc > Qd. > Under the gun limps in; you raise and the button cold calls and so does the big > blind and under the gun. The flop comes Qh Jh 2s. It is checked to you and you > bet out. | ||
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| Re: Defending against the free card, Vin, 9. Jan 2003 20:23 | ||
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| You could argue that limit players are weak tight but I could argue that no-limit players are to ego driven and not very technical. | ||
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| Re: Defending against the free card, CapnD, 9. Jan 2003 12:22 | ||
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| on 28. Dec 2002 15:12 Vincent Merlino wrote: > Suppose the following situation comes up in a hold' em game: > > The game is loose and somewhat agressive. You are in middle position with Kc > Qd. > Under the gun limps in; you raise and the button cold calls and so does the big > blind and under the gun. The flop comes Qh Jh 2s. It is checked to you and you > bet out. > The button raises; the big blind and under the gun drop. Here is where my > question comes up. Is the preferred way to play this: > > 1. Re-raise > 2. Call and then bet the turn if a scare card does not fall such as a heart or > any possible straight card. Against a smart opponent, your in a slight pickle. If you re-raise, he will probably 4-bet you, in which case you will have no idea where you are and he will get his free card anyway. If you call, and fire on the turn he will recognize the play and pop your ass again. The only good thing is that if you meekly call and then check, he's more than likely to bet it for you. Against a weak opponent, re-raising or stop-and-go are both viable options. I would probably use the stop-and-go since there is only one other opponent. Although check-folding when the scare card comes may be weak-tight in many situations. On the other hand if you get raised you have an easy fold becuase it is a rare player who will semi-bluff twice in a row. There are many players who will pull off the semi-bluff twice in this situation if they recognize you are doing the stop-and-go with a hand you will fold. On one hand I semi-bluff raised the flop, semi-bluff raised the turn, and bluff raised the river. My King high flush draw never got there. > > Anyone see otherwise? | ||
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