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Server Time: 2/10/2012 8:52:36 PM PACIFIC |
 Hold'em Poker vs. Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players, Mike K, 12. Dec 2002 00:36 | ||
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| Hi this is my first post on this forum. I am wondering which of the aforementioned books would be right for me. I have Hold'em Excellence by Lou Krieger and WLLH by Lee Jones. If I know whats in those two books for the most part am i ready for HPfAP or should I just get HP? any input appreciated. In addition to HP or HPfAP I am planning to get the theory of poker by Sklansky... just to let you all know in case you have any thoughts on that as well. Thanks Mike | ||
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| Re: Hold'em Poker vs. Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players, Andrew Wells, 12. Dec 2002 02:58 | ||
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| The advanced book is geared towards games starting at 10-20 limit. Theory of Poker is an important read after having played several hundred hours. Just don't try to absorb all the information at once, you have to keep referring back to these periodically. | ||
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| Re: Hold'em Poker vs. Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players, jim grass, 13. Dec 2002 15:05 | ||
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| I doubly agree with Andrew... Andrew is one of few that also agrees thet TOP is best after you have some experience ...For only then will its contents have beneficial clarity.. jim on 12. Dec 2002 02:58 Andrew Wells wrote: > The advanced book is geared towards games starting at 10-20 limit. Theory of Poker is > an important read after having played several hundred hours. Just don't try to absorb > all the information at once, you have to keep referring back to these periodically. | ||
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| Re: Hold'em Poker vs. Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players, micael david burke, 14. Dec 2002 07:52 | ||
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| both of those books are excellent i did however find holdem for advanced adifficult read so ive now read it aleast adozen times inow believe it to be one of the best holdem books iv ever read i think if you can master the plays in those to books you are on your way to being an expert player mike caros books on tells and his articles are very insightful read and reread those two books especially if you are thick skulled like i am good luck | ||
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| Re: Hold'em Poker vs. Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players, Barbarian, 15. Dec 2002 13:02 | ||
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| Here's my view: HPFAP is extremely poorly and confusingly written. It didn't live up to my expectations after hearing all the nonsense about it being THE limit hold'em book. You will not get much out of it unless you already know how to play, in which case you don't need it. It might contain a lot of wisdom, if you can manage to figure out what that wisdom is — I for one cannot. But then again maybe I am just stupid. Sooner or later I guess that it is a must buy if you are a serious player, but just don't expect too much. It's the kind of book that might make you think that you understand something when you really don't, and in reality it only makes you play worse. As to HP, it doesn't really contain anything more than HPFAP and The Theory of Poker, just less, actually. It's interesting to note the differences between HPFAP and HP though. Both HPFAP and HP also seems outdated in a sense in what they consider a "normal" game, which normally, of course, is what they give advice for. Quote from HP: "I am assuming a full game of eight to eleven players and moderately tight play (an average of about four players staying for the flop)." Now, am I the only one who finds that quite loose, and certainly not "moderately tight"? And moreover, the Sklansky hand groups are pure crap. They make preflop play HARDER to understand, and not easier. Now, The Theory of Poker, on the other hand, is a VERY good book. Well written, great content. The title is a bit overpretentious, but it is nevertheless am extremely good poker book. All I can say is: buy it! I have to disagree with the others and claim that you do NOT need much experience to read it and get something out of it. It is well written, well organized, MUCH easier to read and understand than HPFAP. It doesn't give practical advice for specific games, but it give you an understanding of the concepts of poker play, which benefits you when reading other books and thinking about the game yourself. Another book that helped me understand poker better, and how a good player thinks, is Roy Cooke's collection of essays. The first book is unfortunately out of print, but his second collection should be available. Maybe his third is out by now, I don't really know. But anyway, read Roy Cooke to understand more on how to think. But my biggest tip on what to read after Lee Jones' and Lou Krieger's books is Middle Limit Holdem Poker by Jim Brier and Bob Ciaffone. It's a very well written and well organized book that you should gain much more from reading than HPFAP. At least I did. It is also filled with clarifying problems to ponder over to get some practical examples on how to apply the general advice. Get this one. You will not be sorry. Ciaffone/Brier's advice is also geared to ~30% flop games, which you are much more likely to find online than ~40% flop games. So, to sum it up: get Sklansky's The Theory of Poker and Ciaffone/Brier's Middle Limit Holdem Poker and read Roy Cookes essays. Of course, you would want to buy the other books eventually, but they are not your first choice, and don't expect too much of them. c////|=======> Barbarian | ||
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| Re: Hold'em Poker vs. Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players, NiceFella, 17. Dec 2002 15:51 | ||
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| And I thought I was the only one who didn't like HPFAP! Thanks Barbarian for confirming that I'm not crazy. I agree with your assessment of it as a poorly written book that will only make sense to those who already know the content. Although it does contain a wealth of good information, I find much to disagree with in this book -- much of its instructional value for me has been to question everything I read in it, and to verify or disprove its assertions for myself. I also feel that the starting hand groupings are pointless. What's the benefit of assigning JTs and AQo to the same group when they are played so very differently? OK, thanks for letting me vent my secret, NiceFella | ||
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| Re: Hold'em Poker vs. Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players, scoty2hoty, 16. Dec 2002 14:13 | ||
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| I have read both l. jones and sklansky a few times each. I play exclusively low limits. i read jones and i win, i read sklansky and i lose. both books tell you this up front and they are right, making great plays has almost no value in low limit. the problem is they seem to work a few times and you get stuck trying them over and over. play tight preflop, if the flop beats you over the head bet it out, seems to be the only winning strategy in llhe. if someone comes at you hard they are probably not full of it | ||
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